Talk:Rodenticide/Archive 1

Removed sections
The following POV section was removed. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 19:55, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


 * == Criticism ==
 * The practice of rodenticide is heavily criticized by animal rights activists due to the fact that human beigns are no less harmful to the enviroment than the rats are, since we infest, consume the planet and prejudice other live beings pretty much the same way rats do, therefore, if there is a reason for the unnecessary killing of rats, so there is a reason for the unnecessary killing of people, as in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings by the United States of America. Activists also complain that the rodents are essencial to the ecological balance and that by killing them, one would be unbalancing the balance of ecology, causing the much feared Global Warming. Rats just want a place to live and reproduce, just like we do, and they think and have feelings just like we do, so we should treat them the same way we would like them to treat us: with care and love.

Removed from the Alterntaive segment for being POV and unsourced. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 19:57, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It's also possible to kill rats by the means of shotgun blasts, but that's an extremely expensive and messy alternative, although it can be quite fun for the challenges it presents. Rat-shotgunning is a popular sport in many rural areas, it usually has no rules but some can be set by the players if so they wish: killing the rat with a head shot worths 5 points, while killing it but not with a head shot worhts one. Incapaciting but not killing the friendly mousey worths 10 points. The dead mice are usually made into hamburgers and fed to the kids. Ratburgers are considered to be one of the many fine delicacies of Scottsbluff, Nebraska, and are eaten raw or fried.

WTF man have you never eaten a ratburger? --Cuzandor 20:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Vomit reflex
I understand rats have no vomit reflex so if an emetic is added to the rat poison it will cause other animals to puke it up before a lethal dose can be assimilated. Is this true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vomiting

even if vomiting occurs soon after ingestion of the poison, an intoxication can be possible due to the amouth of rodenticide, that is resorbed prior to vomiting (especially, metal phosphides/phosphine generated from them in gastric juice, strychnine, crimidine and tetramin are resorbed very quickly). Another, similar approach in making the baits more safe for pets and children is adding a little amouth of extremely bitter tasting agent (Bitrex, denatonium benzoate, added to most baits at 0.001%); however, this approach, despite claims of the manufacturers, makes the baits less palatable to rodents (they can taste Bitrex as well). Only reliable protection of pets and other non-target animals is to apply the bait in closed bait-stations and to use rodenticides, that pose no or very little secondary poisoning hazard (intoxications of carnivores by eating poisoned carcasses of rodents; safe in this sense are f.e. zinc phosphide and first generation anticoagulants, as warfarin and coumateralyl).--84.163.116.7 22:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Partially, yes. Some rodenticides (e.g. zinc phosphide, scilliroside) are emetics themselfs, sometimes, an antimony emetic (antimony-potassium tartrate) is added (f.e. to zinc phosphide or thallium sulfate) so they are partially safer in animals that can vomit (such as dog or cat), however

Burning Mouth?
Removed the last sentence in the intro paragraph - it was added by anon, with no reference and was silly. --Storkk 21:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Edit of October 07th 2006
I edited the list of (formerly) used non-anticoagulant rodenticides;

Barium is not a heavy metal, it's an alkaline earth metal; thallium is a heavy metal, in turn; Zyklon B was pure HCN, (not a solution of it) absorbed in an inert carrier; curare was NEVER used as an rodenticide because it is poisonous only upon parenteral application (i.e. injection, or wound contamination with a sufficient dose of the poison). It's highly unlikely, that chasing single rats with a syringe full of curare and needle on it would be an effective mean of decimating rat population. I also removed the Paris green mentioned, because this compound was used only as insecticide and conservation agent. If author (or somebody else) can provide a reasonable source, that mentions some use of it as rodenticide in the past, I'll accept it.

P.S.: this article should, in my opinion be named "Rodenticide" and there should be a redirection on it from the "Rat poison" title; the reason of doing so is obvious: the mentioned compounds/poisons (anticoagulants; metal phosphides; bromethalin; thallium salts etc.) are not only used for eradicating rats ("raticides") but also house and field mice and other commensal or agriculture-compromising rodent species; "rat poisons" (raticides) are in fact a part of the whole rodenticides group of compounds, particulary useful for use in exterminating rats (as first generation anticoagulants are, for example). If someone has objections against changing the title from "Rat poison" to "Rodenticide" with redirection from "Rat poison", he/she should present it here, otherwise, I will change the title in next days.--84.163.124.102 21:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Edit of October 14th, 2006
I edited the anticoagulant and hypercalcemia sections. In hypercalcemia, I mentioned specific brand mark product, but only for the historical reason (the mentioned Sorexa mark was first to apply calciferol as an active toxicant).--Spiperon 21:31, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Re-naming this article
In the next 24 hours, I will move this article under the title "Rodenticide". There will be a redirection from "Rat poison" to it. If anyone has objections, he/she can discuss it here.--Spiperon 22:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Readability
This page comes on strong and is very akward to read. I feel more explanation should be given in the opening paragraphs; the third sentence (in Anticoagulants) already jumps to complete biochemical enzyme names. Most of the content needs to be edited for grammar and clarity.

24.159.245.91 07:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Reference
Information is taken from a commercial (pest control) web page. The reference goes to that web page not to the journal cited, and is therefore a secondary source. The supposed reference is mis-spelled (as it is in the commercial web page.) I cannot personally find any such article in 1998 in the Journal of Veterinary Medicine published by Blackwell. I think at the least the reference should be to the source which was read. However, can anyone identify the true original source or give a better one? Chemical Engineer 16:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Rattus Conantus?
"Rattus Conantus is the only species of rat to be found to have developed immunity to all types of anti coagulant."

Could anyone provide a reference for this species? I couldn't find it anywhere...--84.163.90.121 04:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Rat Repellent
I have heard regarding the shrub which repelles the mice. Some farmers use this to keep their yield intact. Does any body know regarding the name & availability of such shrub ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayeshmk (talk • contribs) 12:46, 23 March 2008 (UTC)


 * See part of this article that I added about Abies balsamea.
 * Happy New Year!
 * WriterHound (talk) 05:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Ethylene Glycol
I removed the following section because it appears to violate WP:OR. If anyone here has a reference of (CH2OH)2 being used as a rodenticide, we can re-write the section and include it. --Slashme (talk) 14:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * An alternative poison that shows enough promise to deserve serious attention has been used unofficially at least in parts of South Africa. This is simple ethylene glycol, as used in antifreeze.  It is sweet, tasting much like glycerol, and is thereby attractive to rats.  Apparently it requires no pre-baiting because its action is slow, but anyone trying it as a new rodenticide should consider some commonsense experimentation to confirm what formulations and programmes work best.  Like any pesticide, it requires intelligent handling and responsible precautions.  Fatal poisoning of pets has occurred when irresponsible amateurs failed to control access to bait.  However glycol certainly is far less toxic than several other standard rodenticides.


 * The mode of action is that upon ingestion it is absorbed into the bloodstream, and it subsequently is oxidised to oxalate. In minute quantities oxalate is a normal metabolite and the kidneys rapidly and routinely excrete it.  However, the large quantities produced by the metabolism of glycol bait precipitate in the kidney tissue as insoluble oxalate salts in the form of raphides.  They disrupt the kidney tissues, causing a painful death, though not obviously more painful than some other rodenticides.  However, glycol has the advantage of neither apparently causing bait-shyness, nor offering much scope for development of physiological tolerance, nor heritable resistance.  It also is a cheap and easily handled substance that should be useful under a wide range of circumstances.

Suggestions in the "Alternatives" section.
Why are there suggestions in the last section of this article? "Consider this, please use that". Wikipedia still isn't a how-to manual, ay?--84.163.109.51 (talk) 20:39, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Whole Wheat
Seen poisons based on this on sale locally. There's a lot of "whole wheat" rat and mouse poisons available online. I know it works by swelling and apparently interrupting the digestive system, though my knowledge of the exact toxicology is a little sparse. Someone with a little more knowledge want to write this up? 213.48.114.34 (talk) 04:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Whole wheat describes usually just a form of bait, being whole bait seeds impregnated or coated with the rodenticide (anticoagulants or non-anticoagulants). This is not surprising, since rodents generally tend to prefer cereal feeds as a large part of their diet, so that fresh, good quality whole wheat offers an attractive and palatable bait basis, readily taken by most mice and rats in quantities sufficient to deliver lethal dose of the actual rodenticide. Cheers,--93.192.152.123 (talk) 14:30, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

This article is incomplete
I would like to see the history and development of rat poison. Which chemicals were experimented with? What was settled on first? What came next, and why the switch? For example, I know arsenic was initially used in rat poison but subsequently outlawed in favor of phosphorus. The reason being that people would use arsenic based rat poison to commit suicide or murder. However, the replacement of phosphorus based rat poison didn't help, because phosphorus could just as easily be used for murder or suicide. A timeline of the different types of recipes would be nice. Also, company history - who dominates this industry today, and who did before?

Also, what are the effects of rat poison on humans? The article talks about the dangers to mammals, but I think this needs much more elaboration. What laws have been put in place to regulate this industry, and are there ongoing debates about what chemicals should be used and in what quantities? Or are there differences between residential and commercial use? I know in the case of insecticides there is a lot of debate about organophosphates and phosphorus fluorine compounds, because they constitute nerve gas. Residential insecticides can be harmful to human health in large quantities. How about rodenticides? — Preceding unsigned comment added by OrganicSolar (talk • contribs) 10:58, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Rodenticides and dogs
I've deleted this section. It was little more than a how-to section, but more importantly it made claims that all rodenticides produce the same symptoms, all have the same treatment and so forth. Since this directly contradicts the referenced sections of the article, I've removed this unreferenced and rather tangential section. Mark Marathon (talk) 23:58, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Untitled
The link to rodent eradication for San Jorge Islands, Mexico points to islands in the Solomons instead of Mexico. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.239.137 (talk) 23:16, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

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Non-chemical poisons
The alternatives section refers to "Non-chemical poisons". Can anyone explain what this means? Corn cobs, the only alternative listed there, are certainly made of chemicals. In what sense is a corn cob "non-chemical", and how is it less "chemical" than other plant-derived rodenticides such as squill or strychnine?Mark Marathon (talk) 02:53, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Apparently, as of 2018 the most commonly available bait for rodents is non toxic, flavored corn meal in the form of large 1x2 inch cubes or 1/8 inch pellets. The kill is reportedly done by rodents gorging on the bait then drinking water which causes the bait to expand rupturing the rodent. Other reports claim the corn meal absorbs all the water the rodent drinks so the kill is by dehydration. 98.164.64.58 (talk) 06:40, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

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