Talk:Roger B. Taney/Archive 1

Secretary of Treasury
Roger Taney was Andrew Jacksons secretary of treasury.

Brandon Lupo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.154.210.25 (talk) 21:22, 9 March 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I have incorporated that info into the page. Jacob1207 02:43, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Layout
Is it just my system, or does the image blot out some portions of the paragraph that describes Taney's migration to the Democratic Party?

Italo Svevo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Italo Svevo (talk • contribs) 00:56, 18 June 2004 (UTC)

Attorney General and Treasury Secretary
Did Taney hold both of those roles concurrently for a time as indicated by the dates in the article? --Daysleeper47 14:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Taney's role in Barron v. Baltimore
The full text of the Barron case reveals that one of the lawyers for the city of Baltimore was named Taney. Does anyone know if it was soon-to-be Chief Justice Taney arguing that case, or another Marylander lawyer named Taney? -- Sekicho 21:08, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, actually. See this webpage (scroll all the way down the the bottom part!) for a brief confirmation: http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/specialcollections/aslh/
 * Liashi 22:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Alma Mater
I added the Alma Mater for Taney and cited it to this pagewhich has some usefull stuff about Taney. I have no time to do actual article work, but if somebody is interested I glimpsed over the page and it seems to have stuff the wikipedia entry is missing, if anyone is interested in expanding. --DFRussia 06:23, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Conflicting texts
In the introduction of this article it says that Taney was "a slaveholder who regretted the institution and manumitted his slaves", while in the Dred Scott v. Sandford article it says that "Many abolitionists and some supporters of slavery believed that Taney was prepared to rule, as soon as the issue was presented in a subsequent case, that the states had no power to prohibit slavery within their borders and that state laws providing for the emancipation of slaves brought into their territory or forbidding the institution of slavery were likewise unconstitutional." The latter seems an odd wish list for someone who regrets the institution of slavery. I'll add a fact tag to the sentence above. The part about him "loving his country over his state" may be some biographer's opinion, but is hardly quantifiable and may be tough to support as well. Afasmit (talk) 05:38, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, from what I have read, Taney did not have a problem with the institution of slavery whatsoever so text indicating that he regretted the institution and manumitted his slaves, especially inasmuch as there is no cite to it, should be removed and I'm going to remove it now.Mysteryquest (talk) 20:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

"and he picked his nose too!!"
Is the bizarre personal insult stuff really necessary in a short encyclopedia entry about the guy? "Described by his and President Andrew Jackson's critics as ". . . stooped, sallow, ugly. . . supple, cringing tool of Jacksonian power," O.K., so he wrote the Dred Scott decision. Do we have to search for every little insulting criticism that we can find to trash the guy? Isn't his association with Dred Scott enough? I'm deleting this stuff. 122.25.150.19 (talk) 11:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Taneytown?
It is a minor curiosity that Taneytown, Maryland was named after his cousin. 86.144.199.247 (talk) 19:45, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

'Unfortunate race'
The author of 'Dictionary of Misinformation' regards Taney's wording 'unfortunate race', to indicate sympathy for blacks. In those days, the word 'unfortunate' was used in quite an unemotive way to classify people of low status. Jack the Ripper's victims in London -  the most degraded level of streetwalker  -  were classed as 'unfortunates'  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.80.231 (talk) 17:39, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Free Blacks were citizens of the United States
In his dissent Justice Benjamin Curtis noted that free Black citizens voted on the issue of adopting the Consitiution and for Justice Roger Taney to argue that some of the people who had given us the Constitution were not citizens was ridiculous. In his dissent Justice Curtis wrote:

"That Constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States, through the action, in each State, or those persons who were qualified by its laws to act thereon, in behalf of themselves and all other citizens of that State. In some of the States, as we have seen, colored persons were among those qualified by law to act on this subject. These colored persons were not only included in the body of 'the people of the United States,' by whom the Constitution was ordained and established, but in at least five of the States they had the power to act, and doubtless did act, by their suffrages, upon the question of its adoption. It would be strange, if we were to find in that instrument anything which deprived of their citizenship any part of the people of the United States who were among those by whom it was established."

(From the Findlaw link in the Wiki article on Justice Benjamin Curtis.)

Since Justice Curtis is cited as praising Justice Taney and in denouncing President Abraham Lincoln I think that elemental fairness demands his demonstration that the Taney decision is based on a falsehood.01:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)John Rydberg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.230.132 (talk)


 * That comment appears to be referring to Benjamin Robbins Curtis, but has a few typos, and doesn't point to a specific source for the "Findlaw link". The point is unclear anyway Tedickey (talk) 14:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

This para should be in the main article; the point isn't in the least unclear, which is: Taney falsified history to reach a political conclusion. Theonemacduff (talk) 15:22, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Get rid of the Scalia stuff or change it
This is mere hagiography, and isn't a description of Taney that carries any force, since it really only points to Scalia's transparent desire to be seen in the same light, i.e., he is preparing biographers' views for the eventual divided legacy he hopes to leave behind him. The mere fact of Scalia'a writing it tells us nothing about Taney at all, and much about Scalia's various guilts and regrets. It is close to violating the NPOV guidelines, though in a subtle way. I would either delete it, or reduce it considerably, or better yet, reframe it as a statement from a contemporary jurist who is likely to leave as divided a legacy as Taney.Theonemacduff (talk) 15:26, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Regretted the Institution?
The citation to the Catholic Encyclopedia does not support the assertion that he "regretted" the institution of slavery. Could it be that, having acquired a city job, he simply decided that managing slaves was too much trouble and set them free? Of course, he could have sold them, so it may be that he had some abhorrence of trafficking in human beings.John Paul Parks (talk) 22:50, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * In United States v. Isaac Morris (1840), he spoke for a unanimous Supreme Court in upholding a relatively broad construction of a federal anti-Africa-slave-trade law, but I don't think it was out of dislike for slavery. AnonMoos (talk) 05:57, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Northern view of Taney
After the Dred Scott decision he was widely hated and reviled in the North (not just by committed abolitionists), and during the Civil War many thought that the only reason that he didn't go south and join the Confederacy was that he wanted to conduct malicious judicial sabotage and vandalism operations behind the Union lines in order to traitorously support the South. That was why Lincoln could freely ignore ex parte Merryman and similar -- everybody who would object to Lincoln disregarding the Supreme Court was already opposed to Lincoln, so Lincoln wouldn't lose any political support. If there was a need to uphold civil liberties during the Civil War, Taney really wasn't the person to do it, because he was fatally tainted and toxic in Northern/Union politics, and every decision of his would be minutely scrutinized for treasonous motives... AnonMoos (talk) 06:10, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Major revert
I reverted back to the December 6 edit of Woomn-17 because Jolie Grace Wareham's major additions on December 8 had the appearance of being copied/pasted, leaving a lot of messy formatting, and none of it appeared to have any inline cites. Some of the material was overly general (which was subsequently removed), and other parts seem overly expansionist. Perhaps even Woomin-17's edits expanded too far as well, but they seemed to be in much better condition, so I left them in. I'm sorry about any good faith edits that were done in the meantime, but as is the usual case, it takes too much effort to weave those back in. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 00:58, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Origin of the Curtis quote
Repectfully,, I believe you are mistaken about the authorship of the first blockquote in the Legacy section, which begins He was indeed a great magistrate.... It does indeed come from the memoirs of Justice Benjamin Curtis, but it is actually the view of his brother George Ticknor Curtis, who edited those memoirs. I admit that I have not read the entire book, but if you begin reading the section in which that quote appears, which is titled "Note on the Dred Scott Case" and begins on page 234, it is clear that the author of that section is someone other than Justice Benjamin Curtis. The author refers to himself as "I" but consistently refers to the actions and correspondence of "Judge Curtis," and the quotation is in the voice of the section's author rather than embedded in a blockquote or some other form of attribution.

If that seems a little too tenuous for you, here is another source that directly attributes the quotation to George Ticknor Curtis. . The only sources I can find that directly attribute the quotation to Benjamin Curtis seem to have gotten that idea from us. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 14:32, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * It's possible you are correct, but since this is from the memoir of Justice Benjamin Curtis (presumably Benjamin's own words), to say it's actually his brother George Ticknor Curtis requires something more clear, I think. Also, the book shows that Benjamin's son, also named Benjamin, was the only editor.  Stevie is the man!  Talk • Work 14:48, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Re: something more clear, what about the source I link above that directly attributes the quotation to George Ticknor Curtis? Also, Benjamin's son, also named Benjamin, was the only editor isn't quite true. If you look at the copyright page it clearly lists George Ticknor Curtis as an editor. . -Starke Hathaway (talk) 14:53, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I think you should consider the possibility that the writer in the source you provided (and I have seen already) was mistaken, and that Benjamin's own words (if they are his own) take precedent. In two places, it says it's edited by Benjamin R. Curtis (his son).  It doesn't say "and George...".  Stevie is the man!  Talk • Work 14:58, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Also, if you read the two pages that immediately follow the bit we quote, it is clear that George Ticknor Curtis is the author. It refers to being asked to participate in the argument of the case, and wanting to accurately reflect the thoughts and feelings of "Judge Curtis" about the case. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 14:59, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * And yet more. The bit we quote appears in Chapter X. Here is how that chapter begins. Judge McLean's anticipation that my brother "might feel a little awkward at the bar" proved not to be correct as soon as the trial was made; and whatever doubts Judge Curtis may himself have had were immediately dispelled. It's G.T. Curtis writing about his brother B. Curtis. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 15:05, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * OK, this is all pretty shaky, but it does appear it's leaning toward your position. It would be better if the text made it more clear who was doing the writing, though.  All I ask is you don't do a revert because the quote cleanup and reference showing the full quote need to stay.  Please update the info before the quote, and perhaps add more citations that back up that it's George. Thanks.  Stevie is the man!  Talk • Work 15:12, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Done. And I think I've found the source of the confusion. Justice Curtis's memoirs were actually written entirely by his brother and edited by his son. The ISBN information lists G.T. Curtis as the author, not the editor. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 15:19, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

File:TANEY, Roger B-Treasury (BEP engraved portrait).jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:TANEY, Roger B-Treasury (BEP engraved portrait).jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on March 17, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2017-03-17. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:22, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Levi Woodbury
Why is Levi Woodbury listed as an associate justice in the Dredd Scott case? He died six years before the case was heard. Mmarmont (talk) 22:30, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Fixed.


 * Billmckern (talk) 01:56, 4 October 2017 (UTC)