Talk:Roger Gracie

pronunciation
a pronounciating guide for Roger's name seems like it should be included. I would add one if i knew what his preferred pronounciation is. likely he uses the soft R like his brazilian relatives (Hoger) but with his strong english ties i wouldn't call it a given.

Yes, I train at his academy, the pronounciation is 'Hoger'.

(Kwikblade 14:19, 25 June 2007 (UTC))


 * Feel free to add it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:IPAc-en — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.182.137.170 (talk) 03:59, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

GRACIE JIUJITSU
The term Gracie Jiujitsu should NOT be used to describe his style. First of all, the difference between Gracie and Brazilian Jiujitsu is at best an idealogical one, and this ideology is most often associated with the Helio Gracie lineage, especially through that of Rorian Gracie.

Roger is a product of Gracie Barra, which is the Carlos Gracie lineage, which describes itself as BJJ. Rorian describes Barras BJJ as being impure and not that of GJJ, so would be stupid to tie him in with Rorian just becuase they share the same last name (which even then Roger GOMES doesnt). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.210.107.225 (talk) 14:14, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

prose
As much as I understand the fan-boys wanting to tart up his page - this page is RIDDLED with opinions, unsourced claims and colourful prose that belongs in a middle school English homework task, NOT ON WIKIPEDIA! If you can't source your claim, DON'T PUT IT ON WIKIPEDIA! I can say Pee-Wee Herman is the sex symbol of the 80s - and without any source to back up that claim, it has as much credibility to the colourful claims about Roger's reputation and "wide acclaim". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.98.125.11 (talk) 08:05, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Added NPOV and OS tags to the page. The article reads like a marketing brochure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.98.125.11 (talk) 16:53, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks IP dude. The page is a problem for occasional but recurrent vandalism and doesn't have a whole lot of watchers (less than 30). I try to keep an eye out for the obvious stuff since I don't know much about the guy but I only added it to my watch list because of one specific vandal with an agenda related to a whole other person and I'm not always around.  I think Gracie's sister's article is a mess too.  Millahnna (talk) 17:16, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm less concerned with outright vandalism, than with his (rather passionate) fans embellishing his page. He's a good grappler and OK teacher (his father is a MUCH better teacher) - but that's my opinion, and doesn't belong in the article - I realize that, but it seems that some of those who have contributed to it did not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.98.125.11 (talk) 22:47, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Well I appreciate all the effort. I hadn't looked at the article in great detail since (fairly recently) adding it.  And having it cleaned up a  bit will make it easier to watch for any kind of problems (like the anon vandal that I came here for or more fancruft like what you've been clearing).  Kudos and happy editing.  Millahnna (talk) 23:01, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Have added references where possible. It seems very stupid that we have "citation needed" about his submitting all opponents in the ADCC 2005, you can see all the fights on YouTube/buy the DVD and it's clearly stated in his fight record. Not sure how to cite that though... 92.21.196.16 (talk) 21:45, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Read WP:BLP - citations are indeed required. YouTube is not considered a WP:RS, and embellishing his fight record with blow-by-blow descriptions is WP:OR. Are you actually aware of any of Wikipedia's policies? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.182.137.170 (talk) 18:22, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

name?
Caption for Roger's photo is "Roger Gracie Gomes" - which conflicts with his name as stated in the article, "Roger Gracie".


 * Changed to consistent with article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GlassTwiceAsBig (talk • contribs) 17:09, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

fight by fight
I can see no indication on any fighter's page, that it is normal to record every fight in detail. This gives WP:UNDUE weight to the page, as well as it's messy. I don't see each and every fight described in detail for Ali or Foreman. --GlassTwiceAsBig (talk) 17:16, 24 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Roger is NOT a Boxer but a Mixed Martial Artist. If you had looked at other MMA fighters pages like Chuck Liddel, Wanderlei Silva or Quinton Jackson then you would see that MMA fighters routinely have fight by fight descriptions especially known fighters who fight in major organizations like UFC and Strikeforce. Check Lawal's page and it has the same thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darrylreevs (talk • contribs) 10:24, 28 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Other people doing it wrong does not make it right. If you can back up your claim that it is "accepted practice" with Wikipedia style guide statements, then fine - otherwise, your argument is infantile in the extreme - "they're doing it, so we should too". Read WP:SPIP and WP:undue and WP:CORPDEPTH before claiming that some practice is "acceptable".

medal record sidebar
I see no purpose for a redundant sidebar of his competition medals - it is already summarized in the achievements section, and I can find no other BJJ competitor page which puts this much detail into the subject's amateur record. Compare this article to others. This article already has too many WP:PEACOCK problems - this is a step backwards imo.

superheavy weight division wins
This diff: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roger_Gracie&diff=485692894&oldid=485079265

I see no reason why the superheavy weight division wins are worthy of mention. How are wins here more notable than, say, lightweight wins? In a word - puffery.

Removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.182.185.22 (talk) 10:28, 5 April 2012 (UTC)