Talk:Roger Keyes, 1st Baron Keyes

Untitled
The phrase "hero"should remain in the article in reference to Keyes and his father. In the case of the father, the fact that he was a war "hero" exercised a great influence on Keyes life. And "Keyes" was famous for being a hero. It was an age that lionized physical bravery to an extent that is unknown today. To surpress this is to present a false view of Keyes.

Article definatly needs a re-write from NPOV to just general editing to make it read better. -- To0n 23:50, 19 December 2005 (UTC) I hope it is rewritten by someone who can spell!

--- Bah! Keyes was never a great speller, why should we be. In any event, I should have the Aspinall-Oglander biography of Keyes (which is the only one that I know of) coming in the mail within days, I'll see what I can do to tidy this up.--Waterj2 06:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Rating of article
This article is very complete and detailed, but needs major citing of sources to make it better. A longer introduction serving as a full summary would be good. There are certain parts of the article which could be revised to omit a certain chattiness to the style. There are variations of tense which are not necessary and out of place. Otherwise, it's a good solid base for an article. -Harlsbottom 00:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * now properly cited. Dormskirk (talk) 20:45, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Ref. section Around the World: 'Then it was off to South America in October 1892, for service on HMS Beagle.'
I only happened to be reading this page and noticed the hyperlink to 'the' HMS Beagle who's own history subsequently mentions it being sold for scrap in 1870.
 * now linked to the correct ship. Dormskirk (talk) 20:45, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph
The opening paragraph says his active career extended up to the Leyte landings but these were in 1944 whereas the rest of the article says his active service, as opposed to a goodwill tour, ended in 1941. One or the other needs to be adjusted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jjc2002 (talk • contribs) 11:27, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * lead and remainder of the article now re-written. Dormskirk (talk) 20:45, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Lacking in objectivity
The article seems somewhat subjective and lacks any real critical content. Keyes was by no means perfect. His preference for promoting officers who played polo and hunted regardless of their ability was frequently held against him and when commanding Combined Operations it was said he put forward operations with a view more to gaining personal glory than for any strategic usefulness they might have.

In particular when in the Med. his handling of the case of Bandmaster Barnacle (that really was his name) turned a small Naval row into a public scandal and seems to have convinced the Admiralty that he was not right for the top job. In the Navy of the 1920s to be made C-in-C Portsmouth after commanding the Mediterranean Fleet was NOT a promotion.

The paragraph on what would have happened if Keyes had commanded in Norway with Carton De Wiart is pure speculation.

This article needs a through re-edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.21.245 (talk) 23:40, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * No doubt the article needs rebalancing, but with regards to your points:


 * Keyes was in no position to "promote" officers who played polo and hunt. He could possibly recommend them for promotion, and that would have to be for more substantial reasons than their sporting pastimes.
 * With regards to Combined Operations "it was said" isn't very compelling evidence.
 * Even the poor exercise in journalism that is Robert Glenton's book on the Royal Oak affair admits that as soon as the matter reached Keyes he was placed in an appalling position. The Admiralty hardly covered itself in glory in the matter either.  And it wasn't the Admiralty who decided who became First Sea Lord and Chief of Naval Staff, but the government.
 * Your point with regard to Norway is well-taken, however. &mdash;Simon Harley (Talk | Library). 08:25, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * now rewritten in a more factual style. Dormskirk (talk) 20:45, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

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