Talk:Roger the Negotiator

Summary
The first of many, I hope. I already reworked the Winter Night Phantom page a good deal. I freely admit this is probably way too long, so if someone wants to take a shot at editing it down some, they're welcome to, but please don't butcher it. -CWD 04:11, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is in violation of copyright
Blatant plagiarism--although the article has been expanded for wikipedia, sections have been lifted whole cloth from the original synopsis, right down to the typos. This is extremely unfair to the Save Big O members who worked their butts off to do the synopses. Permission is formally denied by the owner of the site, namely this editor, that the article was copied from.

Zola 07:44, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I assure you I have never even looked at the episode summary on Save Big O before. Given that both pages are summaries of the same information, there are bound to be similarities, but nothing was lifted or copied.  You think you're the only one who can write a coherent summary of an episode?  Reverted. -CWD 13:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Parts of your summary have been lifted verbatim from ours, the exact phrasing and even some of the same spelling mistakes. Do not revert this again, follow the procedure in the box.

Zola 15:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Show me these parts "lifted verbatim." Put your summary in a version of the page so everyone can use the comparison feature to see what's the same and what's different.  There are going to be similarities because they're both scene-by-scene recaps of the same episode, but I can't find a single line that's precisely the same aside from diologue quotes.  The procedure in the box...would that be the box that's since been removed by another editor? -CWD 16:08, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The editor removed the box but did not restore the article because the editor agreed it was in violation. The second editor verified this immediately as well and as you can see, your article was not restored. Write your own synopsis in your own words and there will be no more complaints, any more than there were complaints about the other synopses that are done.Zola 16:33, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks to me like two different people have edited this besides you and me. According to what I can tell from their user pages (and correct me if I'm wrong), only one of them is Wikipedia staff and he removed your copyvio box, just like the other person who edited it did. I'm not surprised they didn't restore my version since they can see there's still a dispute over it here.  My summary is written in my words and I defy you to prove that it isn't. What am I supposed to do, make up stuff about winged clowns attacking Paradigm City to make sure it's sufficiently distinct from your summary?  Detailed blow-by-blow descriptions of the same events will inevitably resemble each other. The last time I recall looking at your page was a couple of years ago, and I never even glanced at the episode summaries. I don't even know if you had them up then.  Put your version of the summary in an edit of the page, save it, revert back to the blank page in the mean time, and everyone can use the comparison to see what's the same and what's different. -CWD 16:41, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * This case has been refered to the informal mediation cabal. -CWD 16:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

You win
Upon further reflection, I've decided this isn't worth the time to me. So you win: There'll be no episode summary from me, nor will there be any others, though I had planned to eventually do the whole series. Maybe you'll take virtual pen in hand to make one? I doubt it. In fact, I won't edit any Big O-related pages. You can have them as your personal feifdom to prosper or rot for all I care, assuming nobody else has the patience to fight with you. I may not edit any wikipedia pages anymore at all. Editing anime pages on Wikipedia is something I do for enjoyment and to contribute to the fan community. There's no enjoyment in a futile struggle to make you see reason, and there's no point in trying to contribute when everything you work for can be wiped out by self-centered bullies in the blink of an eye and you get called a thief and a liar and you just have to take it.

In closing, I will reiterate once more that I copied NOTHING from your episode summary. I had never seen it before. Any similarities between the two can be attributed to the fact that they both cover the same material in the same fashion. We have both a set of eyes and a set of ears to recieve information and brains to process that information and if we're both asked to faithfully recount a certain set of information it's not surprising that we process it the same way. I already know there's no point in trying to convince you of that, though. No matter. I know the truth, my conscience is clear. I have that, and I gain nothing by wasting further time and effort on this struggle. Best of luck to you. -CWD 23:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Does this mean you'll abandon the mediation you requested earlier, CWD? Jsw663 12:08, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

New Summary
For this page, I pasted the summary prepared by Silent Wind of Doom in the old List of Big O episodes.--Nohansen 02:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Existing Synopses
Just for the sake of anyone checking out the talk page, there is no issue if our synopses are referenced, the issue is when they get reworked and credit isn't given to the people who spent a lot of time and effort putting them together. We also have an encyclopedia of terms, and as long as we are cited as the source, there is no problem with using our material--we all love the show and want these articles to be the best they can be. I wouldn't even object to reproducing the synopses if it's agreeable to the group, I just didn't want to be perceived as trying to "advertise" my site. It's about the SHOW. ;) Zola 05:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That's actually what I was thinking of doing: using your summaries and the ones at TV.com as reference. (unless they're the same one, I haven't checked yet) Of course, I still have a long ways to go. The main article still needs work, and the episode specific articles are the last thing on my mind. But since the episode list is now done, I thought I'd get a head start by pasting the already here-and-done summaries, especially this one. There's no copyright violation, right?


 * --Nohansen 11:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Not at all, you aren't copying them, rewording them a little and then putting your name on them, which was what the whole issue was last time. As long as you say "These came from Save Big O" with link so that the people who did the work get credit, there is no issue at all and you can take this post as my formal permission as the site owner.


 * All the synopses have been completed, we just need final edits for some of them. If they are not yet posted to the main synopsis section you can find them in the forum. If anyone helping keep up the Big O pages here wants to pitch in on final edits, btw, just sign up for the forum and post in the appropriate thread. We are ALMOST there, it's just a huge job. :)


 * Zola 04:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Episode Summaries?
Why do we need summaries of each individual episode? The blurbs on List of The Big O media should be as far into detail as we need to go. See WP:NOT and WP:FICT for Wikipedia's official policies on this matter. I propose redirecting this article to either the media list or the main article. --SteveA026 21:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well... Besides better, concise summaries, I was thinking these articles should include the allusions The Big O makes to other series. For example, the reference to Getter Robo in "The Greatest Villain" (which is currently under the other influences in Production and design on the main article, and would be better in a article about the episode); or the reference to The Shadow Over Innsmouth in Episode 7 (which I haven't been able to include because there's no episode article right now).


 * Also: three featured episode lists link to individual episode articles (List of Fullmetal Alchemist episodes, List of Oh My Goddess episodes and List of Planetes episodes) so it may not be such a bad idea after all.


 * In short, I vote to keep them.--Nohansen 22:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Why not just create an article that covers all the allusions/references? That would cover all the important points without the unnecessary bloat (and evidently, controversy) of individual articles.  Besides, a WP Council member has also opposed the idea of individual articles in the past.  See the talk page. --SteveA026 00:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It should be noted that me being in WP:COUNCIL doesn't actually support my view, or oppose it. Basically, I have no more authority or anything like that by being in that project, as anyone can join it by adding your name to the list. A better example might be some recent talk on WikiProject Anime and manga, where other editors are showing a growing preference to not use individual episode articles. -- Ned Scott 08:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the clarification. --SteveA026 17:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)