Talk:Rogers Pass (British Columbia)


 * I saw today that displays at the Rogers Pass National Historic Site Center state that the $5000 check was "never cashed" and do not mention the "gold watch" alluded to by the article. Not sure which information is correct, but I thought I'd note the discrepancy in case someone else does.  -- 24 Sep 2007  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.29.239.254 (talk) 05:17, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The actual date Rogers confirmed what he "thought" he saw (in fact it was his assistant who actually saw it first)was July 24, 1882. He was 18 miles away May 29, 1881 and due to his stubbon stupidity he had to turn back on account of lack of food for the men. I would suggest the CPR web site has abbreviated the story due to very small space used. Furthermore, the controversy over the pass includes the story that Walter Moberly in 1866 had blazed on a tree "This the pass for the Overland Railway." Supposedly this was found many years later as "proof". It was his assistant Perry who saw it first and years later Moberly said it should have been named Perry's Pass.

On the subject of snowsheds. There was repeated need to add more miles of sheds due to the dangerous slides especially in Rogers Pass.

R.L.Kennedy 02:41, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I am pretty sure that the blazed tree story relates to Eagle Pass (see Walter Moberly (engineer)). I have not read any accounts that challenge the exists of the blaze and his claim to Eagle Pass.  I agree with your description of Moberly's later claims to Perry's Pass.  Al guy 03:20, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)


 * Moberly's journals from the time make clear that it is highly unlikely that he or Perry actually sighted the pass, having merely noted a potential approach.


 * Friday, July 13th - Rained hard most of the day, Perry returned from his trip up the east fork of the Ille-cille-waut River. He did not reach the divide, but reported a low, wide valley as far as he went.  His exploration has not settled the point whether it would be possible to get through the mountains by this valley, but I fear not.  He ought to have got on the divide, and his failure is a great disappointment to me."

Here are some thoughts based on my re-write of Aug 29, 2004. The italic paragraphs below contain content that I removed in my re-write.
 * date of discovery - the original article said July 24, 1882 but the material I found said May 29, 1881. See  and .  My understanding is that the pass was found in 1881 but confirmed in 1882.  I don't know what the 'rules' are for discovery so other input is welcome.
 * distance covered by snow sheds - One reference I found says 6.5 km and another reference says 'over 26,000 ft'(roughly 8 km)(Burrows, Railway Mileposts: Vol 1).  If anyone knows where the value in the original article ('over 20 miles') came from, that would be appreciated.
 * some information on Major Rogers from the original article should be moved to a separate article on Major Rogers. I'll try to work on this at some point but anyone is free to jump in.


 * Note that there is now a Major Rogers Article Albert Bowman Rogers. Fawcett5 16:12, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Rogers Pass was named for Major A. B. Rogers (1829–1889), an American surveyor who had won his military title in the Sioux uprising of 1861 in the United States and his professional reputation as “The Railway Pathfinder” as a locating engineer for the Chicago, Milwaukee and St.Paul line across the prairies.
 * Rogers was hired by James Jerome Hill in April of 1881 to find a way through the Selkirk Mountains for the Canadian Pacific Railway. Hill made him the promise of fame (naming the pass after him) and fortune, $5000, a lot of money at a time when construction workers were paid $1 a day. He was to get both, yet he confounded the CPR’s auditor when he steadfastly refused to cash the cheque, framing it instead.
 * Rogers was a tough task master and was hated by those who worked under him. They suffered under basic and meagre food supplies while being driven to continue on. One party avoided starvation by shear luck when they were able to quickly canoe downstream. He failed to reach his goal in the 1881 season by a mere eighteen miles due to the lack of food supplies and was forced to turn back west.


 * some of the details on the CPR in BC from the orignial article should probably go in a separate article, perhaps a 'CPR in BC' page or perhaps a subpage of the main CPR article. I removed the paragraphs on all the none-Rogers Pass grades and revisions.  Some of this information is out of date since CPR no longer uses helpers (AFAIK) and the new Mount Macdonald eastbound route is less than 2.2% so it might be good if this information was organized into what practices were used during each era.
 * The way west from Calgary to Revelstoke, currently a distance of 262 miles, is one of constant up and down grades. The first 85 miles up the Bow River valley to Banff has no major grades but, from Banff six miles of 1.43% upgrade is followed by about a further 30 miles upgrade. Next came a helper grade from Lake Louise up 7 miles of 2.2% over the Continental Divide to Stephen (5332 feet) in the Kicking Horse Pass at the Alberta-British Columbia boundary. Originally, a dangerous 4.5% grade over the Big Hill was encountered before the famous Spiral Tunnels in 1909 reduced it to 2.2% on the way to Field.
 * From there it was downgrade (1260 feet) on average 1.96% with a maximum of 2.2% through Field to Beavermouth and 18 miles upgrade from Beavermouth through Rogers Pass (4351 feet) to Glacier and  40 miles downgrade to Revelstoke much of it 2.2% with lots of 10 degree curves. Beavermouth to Stoney Creek was a helper grade.
 * This of course made for a strenuous climb eastward of 2, 284 feet over this mostly 2.2% grade followed by 22.4 miles of mainly 2.2% downgrade to Beavermouth, 27 miles under 1% to Golden, 35 miles to Field climbing 1,489 feet at a maximum grade of 2.2%. Eastbound, helper engines were used from Revelstoke to Glacier, Golden to Field and Field to Stephen.
 * The Connaught Tunnel of 1916 and the Spiral Tunnels of 1909 eased conditions, with the latter eliminating the dangerous Big Hill. The Downie Diversion of 1937 further improved the line. It wasn’t until the latter part of the 20th. Century that further improvements were made, with grade reductions at Notch Hill, Clanwilliam and Stephen, followed by the record-breaking Mount MacDonald Tunnel under Connaught Tunnel.

I look forward to people's comments on these changes and further work on this article. Al guy 21:45, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)
 * road history - I do not know much about the highway but it might be nice to put in something about when the highway was built around the 'Big Bend' and why it was moved to Rogers Pass.

Longest
Ok, User:Voyager ch, if Connaught wasn't the longest in the world in 1916, what was?

Date of Discovery
I've deleted a claim that the John Jones' Overlander party crossed the pass in 1858. The only evidence for this is a 2017 newspaper interview with a documentary filmmaker, but the documentary itself refers to an entirely different pass, the North Kootenay Pass on the Alberta/BC border, near present-day Castle Provincial Park. Reviews of Jones' edited diaries make no mention of Jones having traveled anywhere near Rogers Pass.