Talk:Roland TR-808/Archive 1

In the Air Tonight
Thought that Phil didn't use an 808 on 'In the Air Tonight' but a forerunner, such as the CR78? Sounds more like a CR to me. Please confirm. Si

Yeah, that's a CR-78, no question.--feline1 23:58, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

"$20-$50" my (b)ass
Without providing a source, the article states that "it was easy to buy a used machine for prices as low as $20–$50 in the early 1980s". It might have been outshone by sample based machines, but the 808 wasn't a failure on the scale of the 303. I call bullshit until evidence is forthcoming. Melaena (talk) 21:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I call bull shit on that too. It's hard enough to find people who don't know what they have now, much less when it was new.-Cisco KiiD


 * The TR-808's price bottomed out to $200 in early 1986; I remember BAM magazine (a free 1980s and 1990s magazine about music in the San Francisco Bay Area) running ads from music stores were selling the 808 at that price. TB-303s were about $50 or $60 (I almost got one, but alas only had $35; I wish I had $20 more that day; I got its sister the 606 for $60 at the same store a few years later) Samboy (talk) 06:49, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

"One of the earliest drum machines?"
Exactly how short a period of time is appropriate for a particular technology to be in existence to still be considered "new," or "early?" Roland's own first machine was released in 1967, a full thirteen years before the 808. Perhaps when this article is 100 or so years old, the statement might be more accurate with perspective. I wouldn't consider that very early from today's perspective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.185.149 (talk) 03:28, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, after taking a short break to check further, Wikipedia's own history article on drum machines shows they have been around since 1930, a full fifty years before the 808. The 808 was certainly not one of the earliest. In my opinion, that should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.185.149 (talk) 03:38, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah! Missed that "key" word, "PROGRAMMABLE." That does make a big difference. Disregard! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.185.149 (talk) 03:41, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Roland CR-5000
Does anyone have the stuff to write up Roland CR-5000? JFW | T@lk  03:07, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

non-volatile memory does not need to be "maintained"

Outkast
Should there be a note about the reference to the 808 in "I Like The Way You Move" by Outkast? "Cuz' I know y'all wanted that 808/can you feel that b-a-s-s bass?" mmaybe a note next to their listing under notable artists?

if you started listed every song or artist that mentioned the 808 in a song it the list would be around a hundred pages —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.252.150.142 (talk) 17:52, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Introduced when?
The article begins with "introduced in late 1980", but the rest of the article report on usage before 1980. Probably that was meant "introduced in late 1970"? (Liberatore, 2006). 17:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Rubbish, it was introdcued in 1980.--feline1 14:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * According to this SOS article it was launched in 1981 - not really what I would call "late 1980s". http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/may97/rolandtr808.html --78.54.17.31 (talk) 07:04, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Fancruft removal
The "list of notable artists" is way too long and contains numerous non-notable artists who don't even have wiki articles. Pruning required!--feline1 12:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Total removal is not really 'pruning'. Unless there is an acceptable way to list references in lyrics (there are a lot of them!), I suggest to remove then all.--breutje

There back! Ok, I suggest to create a separate page of "references to the TR-808 in modern music". Could be a simple ordered list. We should only accept musicians with a wikipedia page and link to that page. State title (tribue) or lyrics line. Comments? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.148.218.254 (talk) 13:04, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Cowbell sample?
Everything I read about either the TR-808 or cowbells mentions the 'unique' sound or the TR-808's cowbell, but I've never actually heard a sample or part of a song using it. Any suppliers? --Evan Seeds ( talk )( contrib. ) 04:32, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not "unique", it's just the sound of a pair of detuned square waves. You can hear it prominently at the start of, erm, Whitney Houston's "I WAnna Dance with Somebody".--feline1 14:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a pretty unique approach. I can't think of any other drum machines that make use of that approach. 'detuned' is not really accurate either. Detuned is usually applied to oscillators that are less than a semitone apart which is not the case in this circuit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.102.10 (talk) 03:50, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Entires by Jagged 85 are inaccurate. I worked with Roland R&D from 1978 (*) and used the TR808 on record before YMO ,as acknowledged by Roland. Jagged85 has sourced dates from a youtube posting.

(*) Verification : http://summit.sfu.ca/item/7720  page 270. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.240.246.155 (talk) 16:35, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Hudson Hawk21
User:Hudson Hawk21, will you please stop re-inserting your edits, which have been rejected by several editors. The material is so badly written it is verging on comical, it doesn't conform to fundamental policies such as WP:VER and WP:NPOV, and there already are some lines about the importance of the TR808 in hip hop in earlier paragraphs - if you feel this material should be expanded, it should be done there, not added as some random new paragraph. I see on your user talk page that you have already been censured for making egregious edits in another article. If you persist in this behaviour, you will doubtless soon find yourself blocked from editing by an admin.--feline1 (talk) 17:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, I'd like to add that I'm pretty sure Hudson Hawk21 is in danger of violating the three revert rule, if he hasn't already. --Evan Seeds ( talk )( contrib. ) 17:16, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This incorrigable user is continuing to vandalise as sockpuppet User:PRINCETON007. --feline1 (talk) 18:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

VST versions
It's noted several times in the article that there are hundreds of attempts to sample the TR-808 sound - isn't it even part of the General MIDI specification (program 26, IIRC)? Perhaps we should link to one such software emulation, maybe in VST or soundfont format? I'm putting this on talk rather than being bold as I don't actually know of any to link to...

Also, might be nice if someone who actually owns one of these beasts could make a recording and upload it. It's always better to hear these things in context (I would but I don't own one!) Onesecondglance (talk) 10:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi - I would be happy to upload some samples from my 808. How should I do this? If some-one emails me at: jujuspacejazzAThotmail.com with some pointers on how to upload some audio - I'd love to contribute. Just recently had my beautiful banging baby fixed and would love to spread the sub love... Regards - dan.

Beck
From "Hollywood Freaks":

Looking like jail bait/Selling lots of real estate/Looking like a hot date/Banging like an 808

If you need more refs.


 * Any song lyrics would count as a primary source, which is discouraged on Wikipedia. What we need is a secondary source, that is, a verifiable reference that talks about the TR-808 being mentioned in song lyrics.  -- Dachannien TalkContrib 22:47, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Sir Mix-A-Lot
There should be a reference in the Notes from the song "My Posse's On Broadway" ...cause the 808 kick drum makes the girlies get dumb... Dre in l.a. (talk) 04:12, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Notes concerning appearances of "808" in songs - too many?
Most of the recent edits to this article have been to add Yet Another Song that mentions the TR-808 in its lyrics. Is this necessary, and is it encyclopedic? How many is too many? -- Dachannien TalkContrib 15:48, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * it's fancruft crap and should be pruned.--feline1 (talk) 17:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

whew I thought it was just me. i think it's hilarious that the only actual citations in this entire article are lyrics. We definitely don't need more than say 4 of the most popular and I'll do it myself if I remember tomorrow - RamdomWolf 198.96.34.35 (talk) 18:30, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Selling price
The article currently states that the 808 sells today for more than its original RRP, but that is slightly misleading as it completely ignores the effect of inflation on the price. The RRP was ~$1000, which is worth over $2800 today due to inflation. Typical selling prices (sayeth ebay) are well under $2000, so the 808 is much more affordable today than it was in 1980. 81.105.145.149 (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Spelling Error?
In Notes, point 11 says "to much" (instead of "too") - the Notes section is referenced from elsewhere "reflist", I don't know how to locate and edit it.

I'd just like to point out something in the Popular Media section
It mentions Kanye West's 808s & Heartbreak as having the 808 because he supposedly used a TR-808. With proof (I guess you could call it that) of him using a 909, wouldn't it make much more sense for the 808 to reference the area code of where he recorded part of (and mostly IIRC) the album? He recording in Honolulu, Hawaii, and the area code there is 808. Just sayin'. 97.96.245.71 (talk) 18:35, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

But think about it. 808 would be a good refference to HI, but it's called 808's. Used in the plural. Usually when the term 808 is used in plural it refers to either the actual machine or the slang that it's used for which is "The 808 sound" like "Piratin around just lookin for that 808, a perfect hit list, you gon hear, watch and wait."-Lil Wayne, New Orleans Nightmare. On a side note, I find it funny how many artists refer to the 808 when half of them probably think it's a bass note and not a machine.75.130.154.226 (talk) 13:37, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Family Force 5 References an 808 in their song "Earthquake" from their album "Business Up Front/Party In The Back" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.110.72.50 (talk) 18:06, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

What is a Name Check?
The article mentions that Madonna "Name Checks" this drum machine. Name check is some ridiculous hipster term that means that she mentions it in a song. People reading this article shouldn't have to learn a new language to understand its content. Re-write that statement or get rid of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.25.50 (talk) 22:25, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

VCA clarification
VCA is a voltage controlled amplifier look up on WIKI please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.12.196 (talk) 21:17, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

808 State
I gather that this article used to include a long list of songs whose lyrics mentioned the 808, and I understand why that was removed. But shouldn't there at least be a mention of the band 808 State, a fairly significant techno artist whose name refers to the 808? --DougOrleans (talk) 05:03, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Marching Anteaters
I observe that a recent edit to this article removed the long-standing note that the TR-808 was originally compared to “marching anteaters.” I have restored this reference, since it’s reliably sourced. In addition to the original 1982 Keyboard Magazine reference, I have found two recent reliable sources stating that the TR-808’s sound was compared to “marching anteaters.”

Some commentary from someone who remembers that era of electronic music:

Right now, a used TR-808 costs more than a brand new Dave Smith Instruments Tempest Drum Machine, but it was not always that way. By the time the TR-808 came out in 1981, people have been hearing the squelches of various unrealistic drum machines for years; Rock Your Baby from 1974 starts off with a Rhythm Ace drum machine — Rhythm Aces were around since the 1960s. Indeed, Roland themselves released the fully programmable DR-55 (well, OK, only the kick, snare, and rimshot were fully programmable, but still) two years before the TR-808.

Meanwhile, Roger Linn made the LM-1 a reality in 1980. It was fully programmable before the TR-808, had a swing function that the TR-808 didn’t have and...it had samples that sounded like real drums (it wasn’t a sampler: changing the drum sounds required opening up the unit and replacing some of its chips)! This is very tired and true today, but this was a really big deal in 1981. There’s a reason more of the hit records from that year (Human League, Dare; Rod Stewart Tonight I’m Yours, etc.) used the LM-1 and not the TR-808. While the TR-808 finally gave us a fully programmable analog drum machine, its sound was nothing new. The LM-1 sounded a lot more like a real drummer and was on all of the hit records; it was the drum machine to have.

It is true that there were hits in that era that used the TR-808; Sexual Healing, of course comes to mind, and Tangerine Dream used it in their album Exit, but they were the exception in an era where any song with a drum machine was using a LM-1. Pretty soon, Roger Linn reduced the price by 40% with the just as functional (if not more functional) Linn Drum; Oberheim got on the Eprom drum machine bandwagon with the DM-X (I will name just one notable use of this classic: Blue Monday), soon followed by the Emu Drumulator, the Sequential Circuits Tom, the Korg DDR-110 Super Drums. Even Roland quickly hopped on the Eprom/sampled drum machine bandwagon, first with sampled hi-hats in the TR-909, followed shortly with the entire kit sampled in the TR-707 and TR-727 drum machine. In the mid-1980s, the market was flooded with sampled drum machines.

Meanwhile, the TR-808’s price was dropping like a rock. The majority of people making music wanted a drum machine that sounded, well, like a drummer (there was, as I mentioned before, some exceptions: Phil Collins from Genesis used it a lot. And some of the low-budget urban dance music makers were using 808s, possibly because it was what they could afford (Planet Rock, Clear, etc.), but even here, the DM-X was used whenever possible: Grandmaster Flash The Message or Herbie Hancock Rockit). By 1986, the TR-808 was already discontinued and being sold for $200.

It was only after every drum machine on the market was using samples that the TR-808 started climbing in value. It was $200 in 1986; but it was $1000 by 1989 (I remember reading an article from noted music writer Craig Anderton in Electronic Musician that anyone paying that kind of money for a non-sampled drum machine was paying far too much, considering how much more flexible digital was), with the AcidHouse and House Music craze causing the TR-808 to be king of the dance floor. Indeed, a large number of the 1987 #1 dance hits were driven by the TR-808.

The point being, the TR-808 was not a very popular unit when it came out. It took years, after Roland made their one-way trip to making everything digital, for its sound to catch on. Samboy (talk) 05:50, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

The article The Roland TR-808 and the Tale of the Marching Anteaters makes a good case that no one has ever directly compared the TR-808 itself to marching anteaters, only general analogue drum machines at the time, and that all the other articles merely repeat this initially bogus claim. ZoeB (talk) 14:51, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

That journal looks peer reviewed (and this article is more recent than the comment I made above), so I’ve added it as a ref. The “marching anteaters” line comes from an era when no one would publish something so unflattering and refer to a specific make and model, and Milano doesn’t remember exactly what he was thinking of when he penned that line — but yes, Kurt Werner’s case that it probably wasn’t the 808 is compelling. Keyboard did not review the 808, but did post a review of its little sister, the 606, where — as I recall — they said it has a distinct “Peter Gabriel” and “Genesis” sound. I should ask Kurt Werner to dig up the review they made of the 606 to get the exact quotation. Samboy (talk) 17:06, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

768 Measures
The article stated that each pattern could be up to 768 measures long. This wasn't supported by the referenced article ("...with 32 programmable patterns, a maximum of 768 measures, and 16 sounds...") because it obviously isn't so. A measure is a bar and the "768 measures" figure has to do with the maximum length of a complete rhythm track, not a single pattern. Edited the sentence accordingly. LuisCarloz (talk) 06:53, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Tea story
Hey. Do you have a source for this edit? Thanks. Popcornduff (talk) 12:25, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

TR-808 editing
The reason why I edited the English wiki page for the TR-808 is simply because the current article is not true, according to what I heard from Tadao Kikumoto himself every time I meet him in person; he was the leader of the TR-808 R%D team. The current article is being mis-interpreted from Japanese peculiar collectivism way of describing things which is way too complicated to comprehend by most Westerners.

I've been trying to correct the article according to the real story by Tadao himself, which I also uploaded to the RC-808; Re-Create the 808 webpage as the webmaster. There are plenty of media around the world who are happy to know this real stories from us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vectorcriterion (talk • contribs) 20:34, 22 October 2019 (UTC)


 * I moved the above comment here from my talk page.
 * We can't include your additions unless you attribute them to a reliable source (see WP:RS). The source you used doesn't, at first look, appear to meet standards for reliable sources. Perhaps you can provide some more information about it so other people can discuss it and reach a consensus.
 * Additionally, your username is similar to the website you cite, indicating a possible conflict of interest. Popcornduff (talk) 20:44, 22 October 2019 (UTC)