Talk:Rolls-Royce Phantom VIII

Requested move 2 August 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved  Dr Strauss   talk   17:49, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Rolls-Royce Phantom (2017) → Rolls-Royce Phantom (2018) – Automobiles in this era are now entering 2018 model year. It would be unnecessary to make this 2017 because they are going to produce the model in late 2017, like starting right now. Only necessary if this started in early 2017, but it's almost 2018 so vehicles are entering the 2018 generation. Prodigy55 (talk) 19:36, 2 August 2017 (UTC) Prodigy55 (talk) 19:36, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - Soon there will be 2018 models. Since production is near late 2017 and sales are starting in early 2018, it should have the 2018 model year. A 2017 Rolls-Royce Phantom was the previous one Here are images of the 2017 one: https://www.google.com/search?q=2017+rolls+royce+phantom&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLhuy0xLnVAhVH1GMKHa22AuoQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=599 Now let's see the 2018 one: https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=599&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=2018+rolls+royce+phantom&oq=2018+rolls+royce+phantom&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i67k1j0l2.44278.45021.0.45372.4.4.0.0.0.0.254.699.0j3j1.4.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.3.583...0i10k1j0i7i30k1.BNRM_jpS9ig See? They are both different vehicles. - 2600:8800:1D00:23E0:9D5C:9DD2:A348:39E6 (talk) 21:53, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support move. The model year is more recognizable than the calendar year.  ONR  (talk) 01:40, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment. What on Earth was wrong with naming the 2003 model as Rolls-Royce Phantom VII, in line with the old models, and consequently this one as Rolls-Royce Phantom VIII? I see a meandering RM at Talk:Rolls-Royce Phantom (2003), which barely touched on the issue. Superficially, "Phantom VII" seems to be a common name (Topgear, Express, Autocar), and "Phantom VIII" is also widely used for this model (Latimes, Fortune, Bloomberg, Telegraph). For anyone familiar with RR, "Phantom VIII" is an instantly WP:RECOGNIZABLE title, and since we must disambiguate, it has all the features of WP:NATURAL one. Who remembers that the VII was introduced in 2003? No such user (talk) 13:47, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, we seem to have a duplicate article at Rolls-Royce Phantom VIII, and that one has the longer edit history. I have submitted a WP:HISTMERGE request. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:55, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That has been fixed. Thank you, —BarrelProof (talk) 23:11, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. Would be unnecessary because it's almost 2018, and per @ONR. Since a car year is more notable by its model year than its calendar year compared to other products, 2018 would be better, since the 2017 one was the previous one that started in 2003. My only concern is whether this article should actually be "Rolls-Royce Phantom VIII" or "Rolls-Royce Phantom (2018)". Charles12310 (talk) 17:48, 5 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Dispute over composition of Intro section
In order to avoid an edit war I've created this section to help decide the contents of the introductory section of this article.

I believe the intro I first submitted at 17:02 on the 9th of September (799753090), and again at 11:58 on the 1st of October (803252075) should stand. These correct what I believe to be several errors with the current version of the intro section, which I outline below.

* Inclusion of "British" in the description: A car's nationality is not defined, and in the case of the VIII Phantom is particularly hard to judge. Rolls-Royce may be a British brand but it's owned by a German company, has a German chief executive (Torsten Müller-Ötvös), and most of the car is actually produced (body-in-white, V12 engine and more) outside of Great Britain. In light of all this, no nationality should be mentioned.

* Use of "handmade" in the description: handmade is an ill-defined and woolly term: at its worst it's a cynical marketing buzzword. Either way, it has no place in the article.

* "large": the fact that this a large car is advised in the infobox where the car's class (Full-size luxury car (F)) is noted. Noting this fact in the intro section is unnecessary and awkward-sounding duplication.

* "BMW-era" is unclear: The "BMW-era" does not meet Wikipedia's standards for clarity and the provision of appropriate context; it only makes sense to someone with a specialised knowledge of the car industry. "... launched by Rolls-Royce under BMW ownership" is much clearer.

* "launched on 13 July": This is a) demonstrably false and b) too precise for the intro section. The car's precise (and correct) launch date is advised in the "Launch" section.

* "Bonham's house in Mayfair, London": Too much info for the intro section, this fact is later mentioned in the "Launch" section.

* The current revision contains no full-stop at the end of the last sentence.

Both of my aforementioned revisions were reverted by unregistered users who did not leave edit summaries. This may be a sign that these were acts of vandalism.

Either way, I hope there's agreement that the current page version (803274336) should not be retained, and that the page should be reverted to 803252075.

ReverseLevity (talk) 15:39, 2 October 2017 (UTC)ReverseLevity


 * It looks to me like the reverts are motivated by nationalism rather than the improvement of the article. 96.54.57.109 (talk) 17:11, 2 October 2017 (UTC)


 * It was User ReverseLevity that used nationalism against this article in the first place, He clearly personality didn't like the car being British. so He changed and removed the facts. amd It's clearly that I didn't change anything, I only keep protecting the article and reverting to what it was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 16:25, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * That is untrue, an IP that is almost certainly operated by you added the content that is in dispute.

I added some facts in the start of this article. but I added them with references supported, I even added the reference coming from the real mouth of Rolls Royce's ceo, when that user ReverseLevity randomly kept removing content for no reason, just because his personally reason that he doesn't like it being British. despite the facts it is a British car — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 17:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

The car is a British car
This car is a British car made, designed by 2 British car designers Giles Taylor and Alex Innes, and made in the United Kingdom fully British car made.

BMW may have largest shareholder in the company but That doesn't make the company or car not British.

Rolls Royce Motor is still classified as a British company since it's a UK based registered company, having the only one Headquarter in the UK, located in West Sussex, England, no where else. It a British car made in the first place, designed and only made in the United Kingdom by the British


 * I'm guessing user ReverseLevity personality doesn't like it being British, This user even removed content that the place in London where the car was first launched, but You can't get away with the facts that this car is a British car made, designed by the British car designer and only made manufactured in the UK.


 * in this video of launching Rolls Royce Phantom 2018 world premiere in London, The CEO of Rolls Royce Motor Torsten Muller Otvos already says in the video that " It is a British car " in minutes of 1:26 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzinHD9tqmI — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 16:14, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * It's not all that British considering the body in white is made in Germany as is the motor, drawing these lines becomes harder and harder as car manufacture gets more and more globalised, is a Shenyang (BMW Brilliance) made 3 Series German or Chinese? How about a Zinoro based on a BMW X1 but made in China with a Chinese brand on the front? The Phantom is produced in a process more akin to a Knock-down kit with the most industrially intensive process eg body stamping and welding done somewhere other than the location of final assembly which makes assigning a national origin murkey. One more example, the Airbus A320 with the fuselage made in a few countries but final assembly is done in France (for some models final assembly is done in germany but most are put together in France), the A320 is not called a French aircraft. 96.54.57.109 (talk) 16:58, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Also it should surprise no one that they market it as British, they get more prestige and most never notice that lots of the car is made elsewhere. 96.54.57.109 (talk) 17:01, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * with all those things The car is still production and produced in Rolls-Royce Goodwood plant in the United Kingdom, it will never be made in anywhere else in the world, and It was designed by British in the first place. just look up on google for the pictures of it.


 * Look for example, some part of BMW cars these days are made in China but that doesn't make the BMW car Chinese, because BMW is a German car designed.


 * The CEO of Rolls Royce Motor Torsten Muller Otvos says in the video that This car is a British car, only made built in Britain. so if you don't like the car being British, Go argue with the CEO of the company Rolls Royce Motor which is a UK based registered company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 17:21, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * and people buy Rolls Royce because It is a British car made, British design, built Britain, just like the CEO of the company says in the video. and the CEO also says it was made in Britain by the British, no where else — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 17:25, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * "made in Britain by the British" except for the body... and the engine... and doesn't that infotainment screen look familiar oh it's iDrive with a wood panel over it. 96.54.57.109 (talk) 17:34, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * says Made in Britain because The car is actually finally built in Britain in Rolls-Royce Goodwood plant, some parts might come from others place, but It is still and production built in the only one Rolls Royce Factory in Britain and British people. and The car was designed by British car designer Giles Taylor from the start, It is not that hard to understand — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 17:42, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * So the A320 is French now. Aslo I suspect that "Torsten Muller Otvos" might not be British. 96.54.57.109 (talk) 17:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * What about BMW cars? Why are they German since some of parts of BMW cars are made in China? The Rolls Royce Motor CEO Torsten Muller Otvos is not British but He still says Rolls Royce Motor is British, built and designed by British in the UK. and Rolls Royce Motor only has 1 factory in this world, which is located in Goodwood, West Sussex, England so called Goodwood plant Where all Rolls Royce cars being built in production, Eng of story — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 17:52, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The Rolls Royce Motor Company and the CEO say Rolls Royce cars are British, built and designed in Britain. and You can't change that fact unless you are running the company. https://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/en-GB/house-of-rolls-royce/a-greener-goodwood.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 17:58, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * There are better examples within bmw, the BMW X6 is made in Greer, South Carolina by an American BMW subsidiary (BMW US Mfg. Comp.) with an american made body but a German motor, so what is it? The question is whether or not assembly is the determining factor of national origin. 96.54.57.109 (talk) 18:09, 3 October 2017 (UTC)====== ( arbitrary break ) ======

Rolls Royce Motor only has 1 factory in this world Which is located in Goodwood, West Sussex, England, where all Rolls Royce cars are being built. BMW X6 is not even American design, BMW X6s are not only made in America they are also made in Asia. but BMW X6 is still a German car. Just like Toyota which has its largest factories in Malaysia and China but still Toyotas are not Malaysian or Chinese, They are Japanese cars — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 18:18, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * According to the Window sticker the car is made of 75% German parts . 96.54.57.109 (talk) 19:39, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Here's my response to the above.
 * Firstly, I'd like to state that I am in no way anti-British and any allegations to the contrary are false.
 * Secondly, the conversation that has taken above demonstrates precisely why it should not be prescribed in any car's wikipedia article what the car's nationality is. Why so? Because cars do not have a nationality. This is because there is no agreed upon definition of what dictates "nationality": is it the where the brand's parent company is headquartered? Where assembly takes place? Where the constitutive parts are produced? The nationality of the designer? The nationality of the project director?


 * Wikipedia's purpose is to present an unbiased, neutral presentation of the facts concerning a particular topic. As I've outlined above, there is no objective way of determining nationality, hence none should be mentioned. If a reader does a bit of clicking, they'll see that Rolls-Royce Motor Cars is a wholly owned subsidiary of BMW AG, a German concern. They'll see that assembly takes place in the UK, and that the V12 & body-in-white is produced in Germany, and that the gearbox is made by a German supplier. If the reader wishes to assign a nationality to car, that's their prerogative, and the facts mentioned should be included in the article to help them make that decision.


 * However, nationality is not a fact, it is an opinion.  For this reason, it should be left unmentioned.


 * I am reverting to the intro section in version 803252075 of this page. This succinct intro outlines the essentials, and avoids mentioning any details advised else where in the article or infobox (namely, the car's size and the jurisdiction in which it's produced.)


 * Finally, in the infobox, production should be 2017 onwards, not 2018 onwards, as production has already began ( see this autocar link: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/insight-behind-scenes-2018-rolls-royce-phantom ). I am also removing the wiki-link to "Rolls-Royce Motor Cars" in the text of the intro section. This is because just such a wikilink is already provided in the infobox, where it is more appropriate.


 * ReverseLevity (talk) 23:38, 3 October 2017 (UTC)ReverseLevity


 * 75% German part? Fantasy much? The sticker link you mention is from the old model, called 2017 Drophead coupe, and the sticker is not from the company Rolls Royce Motor Cars. It is from the dealership from America that is not involved anything to the car company or the car. The car Still wasn't built in Germany. and This car is classified as a British car according to the words from this automobile company Rolls Royce Motor Cars So Get over it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.24.133.33 (talk) 00:54, 4 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Nope it comes from Rolls-Royce's official American subsidiary and is mandated by federal law. 96.54.57.109 (talk) 05:31, 4 October 2017 (UTC)


 * There's no such thing as Rolls Royce Motor Cars American subsidiary — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.24.133.33 (talk) 07:01, 4 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Look in the right hand corner of the sticker. 96.54.57.109 (talk) 07:26, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

That's just only a dealership in America, they have nothing to do with making cars, all they do is sell cars. and The sticker has to be from the Rolls Royce Motor headquarter which only has 1 in England. and That sticker is not even a sticker of this model. Every Rolls Royce models have badges that say "Hand built in Gooowood. England and this is for 2018 Phantom https://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/content/dam/rollsroyce-website/Phantom_2017/15.ENGINE.jpg.rr.1366.MED.jpg https://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/en-GB/phantom-ewb.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.10.55.193 (talk) 07:39, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Finally a new photo
Two actually, unfortunately in what I regard as a disastrous coulor scheme but of a much better quality as compared to the old one. Which one do you prefer?

Toasted Meter (talk) 10:22, 19 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I'd go with the first one, the Wraith and the holder for the specifications info sheet distract from the Phantom in the second shot.
 * ReverseLevity (talk) 16:10, 19 January 2018 (UTC)ReverseLevity

Phantom VIII
Is there any source to call it this way. Rolls-Royce seems to call it Phantom, without Roman numeral. Hektor (talk) 14:17, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Giles Taylor
Design directors are responsible for selecting designs not making new ones, the Designer field is for those who designed the car not those who selected the design. Toasted Meter (talk) 00:38, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Once again, I repeat, Giles Taylor is responsible for the exterior design of the car, for what it looks like in the end. In many sources, he is listed as a "designer" or "creator" of the car. For example, Forbes writes: "Sketched by Rolls design boss Giles Taylor and his young protégé Innes, Phantom VIII is the most graceful big Roller since the James Young Silver Clouds of the 1950s." And I do not know the rule that prohibits to indicate the head of design in the infobox, even if he took part in the designing process. KiL92 (talk) 20:36, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

a tiny little typo fixed!
under 'specifications' on the four-wheel steering-thingamajig, i saw manoeuvrability or at least something like that as i was reading through, so i just fixed it to maneuverability. just saying -- in case someone is wondering what i edited exactly. Mashujesuro (talk) 20:03, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you; don't let this be your last edit!  Mr.choppers &#124;   ✎  04:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)