Talk:Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne

Archdiocese of Hobart
According to catholic hierachy the Archdiocese of Hobart is an immidiate subject to the holy see, and thus not under the metropolitan of the Archdiocese of Melbourne. I have thus removed it from the list, please correct me if that was a wrong interpretation. andy 16:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne merged into this article
I've just completed a merge of the article Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne into this one, after first fixing up all the broken links to the archbishops on this page. The former article (which now redirects here, as does Catholic Bishops and Archbishops of Melbourne) was merely a list of archbishops, which is handled more appropriately (and in more detail) here. This seems to be a wider problem however, as there are other lists of Australian archbishops at similar titles (for instance Catholic Bishops and Archbishops of Sydney) which would seem to be more profitably located as subsections of the article for the diocese as is the case here, except that those articles tend not to exist yet (Archdiocese of Sydney is a case in point). A little bit of moving of the former articles to the latter titles (along with appropriate expansion of the text to reflect this) would seem logical to me. One hesitation to diving into this, though, is the question of the uniqueness of such titles, as the Anglican church seems to also have archdioceses in some of these cities - perhaps titles of the type Catholic Archdiocese of xxx is more appropriate. Thylacoleo 03:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Moved to "Roman Catholic Archdiocese of X" along with all the other Archdioceses. This solves the problem with the overlapping Anglican dioceses. Benkenobi18 21:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Jafeluv (talk) 13:22, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne → Archdiocese of Melbourne (Roman Catholic) — To disambiguate using parentheses, which is the standard manner of disambiguation on Wikipedia. The name of the dioceses in question is "Diocese of Foo", not "Roman Catholic Diocese of Foo" as implied with the current name. Note the articles listed here are those RC dioceses in Australia that share a name with an Anglican diocese. Mattinbgn (talk) 12:23, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Sydney → Archdiocese of Sydney (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Brisbane → Archdiocese of Brisbane (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Adelaide → Archdiocese of Adelaide (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Perth → Archdiocese of Perth (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Canberra and Goulburn → Archdiocese of Canberra and Goulburn (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Diocese of Ballarat → Diocese of Ballarat (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Diocese of Armidale → Diocese of Armidale (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Diocese of Bathurst → Diocese of Bathurst (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Diocese of Toowoomba → Diocese of Toowoomba (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Diocese of Rockhampton → Diocese of Rockhampton (Roman Catholic)
 * Roman Catholic Diocese of Bunbury → Diocese of Bunbury (Roman Catholic)


 * Comment Of course this move discussion presupposes a similar move of Archdiocese of Melbourne, Archdiocese of Sydney etc. to Archdiocese of Melbourne (Anglican) but that should probably be a separate discussion. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 12:36, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose per WP:PRECISION ("If there is a natural mode of disambiguation in standard English ... use that instead."). Ucucha 12:44, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you think that is a natural mode? To me at least, it does not come across as natural. Are there links to support its common use? -- Mattinbgn (talk) 12:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Does it need to be commonly used? Is there any doubt that in standard English, people would say "Roman Catholic Diocese of X" and "Anglian Diocese of X", not "Diocese of X (Roman Catholic)" and "Diocese of X (Anglican)" when they have to disambiguate the terms? Ucucha 12:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Going on the website of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Sydney, it says Welcome to the Catholic Archdiocese of Sydney, not Welcome to the Archdiocese of Sydney (Roman Catholic). Same goes for the Melbourne one. Lets just stick with the name the Archdiocese has picked for itself rather then invent one. Calistemon (talk) 14:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Awkward and will only cause unecessary confusion.  The established style for such articles is "Anglican Diocese od .." and "Roman Catholic Diocese of ..." etc.  This seems both staightforward and sensible. Anglicanus (talk) 16:06, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose Not only is it awkward and confusing, but the current name is also the actual legal name of the respective dioceses (see e.g. Brisbane.). There is a case to be made that the word "Roman" is unnecessary as many dioceses informally and publicly refer to themselves as "Catholic...". Mattinbgn makes a good point re Anglican dioceses however; their correct legal names (and most logical common names) are "Anglican Diocese of...". Orderinchaos 18:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm wary of abbreviating things (like "Catholic" for "Roman Catholic"), because then might wind up with inconsistencies between articles. For example, if you look at Category:Faculties of the University of Sydney, such a problem exists there: some of the articles are "University of Sydney Faculty of Foo", others are just "Sydney Faculty of Foo", and God help you if you get into a move war over something like that! Anyway, the Maronites might complain if someone tries to monopolise "Catholic" for Roman Catholics (I think the two are in communion though). Then again, the Chaldean dioceses are mostly in the "Zakho (Chaldean Diocese)" syntax. So I'd leave "Roman" there. Miracle Pen (talk) 16:04, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose per bne.catholic.net.au link above. Agree with Orderinchaos that "Catholic Diocese of..." might be better. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose Parenthetical title dabs are not so much the "standard" method of disambiguation as they are the "default" method of disambiguation. If there's a "natural mode" of dabbing, then, per WP:PRECISION, use that. Miracle Pen (talk) 16:04, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose If this is to be done, then it should not just be for Australia but a global change, for consistency. But I oppose it due to the legal names of these dioceses, that it is not "natural mode", and that it will not be consistent with all the other dioceses e.g. Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Westminster, Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York, Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Paris, etc. I also oppose shortening RC to just Catholic for various reasons I will not go into here for the purpose of this discussion. – SMasters (talk) 03:31, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Support a move The name used in article title should be the actual name, the common name, of the place, plus added parenthetical disambiguation only if needed. The first reference in Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne article would support using name of Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne or Archdiocese of Melbourne.  Since i think the latter is taken by the Anglican diocese, i think Archdiocese of Melbourne should become a disambiguation page, and it should include Archdiocese of Melboure (Anglican) and either Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne or Archdiocese of Melbourne (Catholic).  The parenthetical should include what we are adding that is not part of the actual name.  There is no need shown for global changes of all archdiocese names.  Only if there is ambiguity in name do we need to set up disambiguation pages and use disambiguating parentheticals in article names. -- do  ncr  am  14:43, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Archdiocese of Melbourne currently redirects to Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne. Catholicism is dominant in Australia. "There is no need shown for global changes of all archdiocese names." Why? Either you do it for all or not at all. There should be consistency. – SMasters (talk) 03:30, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.