Talk:Roman Inquisition/21-March-2016-draft-translation-talk

I may need your guidance using foreign languages & a newer generation of Wikipedia tools. I haven't previously used translation tools. I have not used the visual editor (and yes I liked MSDOS and have never really warmed to Windows). I wanted to download a text version of the Polish, but couldn't guess how. Remedial education is in order.

I have a little knowledge of the (primarily Spanish) Inquisition. According to my reading, most of what has been written about the Roman Inquisition has been based on individual cases: Bruno and Galileo being prominent. Writing in broad terms require a LOT of text because of the chaotic politics of Italy over centuries.

The Polish is written around Black and Del Col. Del Col's text has not achieved popularity in the English-speaking world. I found _A_ used copy for sale in Britain. Black is readily available.

Effort 2016-Mar-22:

I just completed the visitation of every web site referenced by the Polish version. I didn't attempt to turn on any translation services so I have now been exposed to more French, German and Italian than in all my prior years. I found only one obvious error: reference 127 has a dead link in maybe Croatian? All other links functioned and produced nothing risqué.

While there is a scattering of sites, a few are referenced repeatedly. Google books is one favorite. SIUSA is another. SYMOGIH gets a few visits.

If there are ANY Polish references, they are rare. Italian is dominant and English is used shockingly often; the culture has no direct inquisitorial experience (because the English call deviants traitors rather than heretics).104.173.68.20 (talk) 21:56, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

References with ISBNs in the Polish Translation
ISBNs not found : 978-26-0003-625-2, 978-27-2830-997-9, 978-14-4266-941-3 (previously for Deutscher). The ISBNs may exist, but they were not found by OttoBib.com.




 * 978-260003625-2 Correspondance de Fénelon




 * 978-272830997-9 Publications de l'École française de Rome






 * 104.173.68.20 (talk) 22:03, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Bibliography with ISBNs from the Polish translation
Section obsolete.104.173.68.20 (talk) 19:32, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

March 23 thought
I have no idea where to look for old references in Italian. Looking in the footnotes/references/bibliography sections of Del Col has promise. Got a copy?104.173.68.20 (talk) 22:57, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Reference list
There are 409 references in the Polish version of Roman Inquisition (including duplicates and footnotes). Edit to see. Each is listed thrice below. The first version is Polish. The second is machine translated to English by Google Translate. The third is the Polish version "translated" by a series of batch search-and-replace edits, pattern matching and a few manual edits. The last version produces one nontrivial message in the sandbox - reference 306 includes a url in the title. The three versions will provide the core information for translation. I expect to append supplemental citations and machine translations of titles within this file which will document the translation process for the references.

Bits of Polish remain. I believe that enough is translated so that I can focus my efforts on verifying or improving the citations.

Proposed file format with enhancements:
 * number: Three lines of basic reference information. Perhaps adequate.
 * number+ Additional information including citation confirmation and comments.
 * number. Proposed final? version.

<!-- 1: 1: 2: 2: 3: 3: 4: 4: 4+ |author-link= Henry Charles Lea 4+ |url= https://archive.org/stream/inquisitioninspa00leahrich#page/n7/mode/2up 4+ |location = London – New York 5: 5: 6: 6: 6+ Toaff, Ariel. "The Jews in Umbria, 3 vol." New York, EJ Brill (1993). 6+ |isbn= 978-9004096950 7: 7: 8: 8: 9: 9: 10: 10: 11: 11: 12: 12: 13: 13: 14: 14: 15: 15: 16: 16: 17: 17: 18: 18: 18+ Bullarium 18+ FACTA, LOCUPLETIOR, et al. "BULLARIUM ROMANUM BULLARUM DIPLOMATUM ET PRIVILEGIORUM SANCTORUM ROMANORUM PONTIFICUM TAURINENSIS EDITIO." (1857). 18+ |trans-title = Taurinensis Edition: BULLARIUM Bulls, diplomas and privileges of the holy Roman Pontiff 18+ |language = Latin

19: 19: 19+ Web citation confirmed. APA citation. Ojetti, B. (1912). The Roman Congregations. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Retrieved April 21, 2016 from New Advent: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13136a.htm 20: 20: 20+ |url= https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Pqw96644qloC&oi=fnd&pg=PR1&dq=Calmann+L%C3%A9vy+1886+Histoire+des+r%C3%A9unions+temporaires&ots=nCm8zhRv00&sig=5wJx6keldiojok-vuM-0bHa6eMk#v=onepage&q&f=false 20+ 20+ |trans-title= History of temporary meetings of Avignon and the Venaissin to France 20+ |language= French |location= Paris 21: 21: 22: 22: 23: 23: 24: 24: 24+ Confirmed by http://www.isbns.net/isbn/9788884980823/ 24+ |trans-title= The Roman Inquisition : readings and research 24+ |language= Italian 25: 25: 26: 26: 27: 27: 28: 28: 29: 29: 30: 30: 31: 31: 32: 32: 33: 33: 34: 34: 35: 35: 36: 36: 37: 37: 38: 38: 38+ Web citation confirmed. 39: 39: 40: 40: 41: 41: 42: 42: 43: 43: 44: 44: 45: 45: 46: 46: 47: 47: 48: 48: 49: 49: 50: 50: 51: 51: 52: 52: 53: 53: 54: 54: 55: 55: 56: 56: 57: 57: 58: 58: 59: 59: 60: 60: 61: 61: 62: 62: 63: 63: 64: 64: 65: 65: 66: 66: 67: 67: 68: 68: 69: 69: 70: 70: 71: 71: 71+ Citation confirmed Vose, Robin. “Introduction to inquisitorial manuals.” Hesburgh Libraries of Notre Dame, Department of Rare Books and Special Collections. University of Notre Dame, 2010.  72: 72: 73: 73: 74: 74: 75: 75: 76: 76: 77: 77: 78: 78: 79: 79: 80: 80: 81: 81: 82: 82: 83: 83: 84: 84: 85: 85: 86: 86: 86: 87: 87: 87: 88: 88: 89: 89: 89+ GB: Title	Memorie Storiche de Cardinali Della Santa Romana Chiesa V6 (1793), Volume 6; Author	Lorenzo Cardella; Edition	reprint; Publisher	Kessinger Publishing, 2009; ISBN	1104884143, 9781104884147 89+ |trans-title= Historical Memories of Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church 89+ |language= Italian 90: 90: 91: 91: 92: 92: 93: 93: 93+ 93+ |trans-title = pontifical yearbook 94: 94: 94+ 95: 95: 95+ 96: 96: 97: 97: 97+ 98: 98: 99: 99: 100: 100: 100+ 100+ |trans-title= News: for the year 101: 101: 102: 102: 103: 103: 104: 104: 105: 105: 106: 106: 107: 107: 108: 108: 109: 109: 110: 110: 110+ Web citation confirmed. 110+ |trans-title= Diocese of Mondovi. Tribunal of the Inquisition 110+ Web citation confirmed. 110+ |trans-title= inquisitorial headquarters Mondovì 111: 111: 112: 112: 113: 113: 114: 114: 115: 115: 116: 116: 117: 117: 117+ Del Col contribution confirmed 117+ |trans-title= The scattered archives of the Inquisition Dominican venues: the cases of Piacenza and Parma 117+ GB: https://books.google.com/books/about/Nuova_descrizione_della_citt%C3%A0_di_Parma.html?id=MiMZAizbQKwC 117+ 117+ |trans-title= New description of the city of Parma compiled by Professor Paolo Donati councilor vote in D. Academy of Fine Arts 118: 118: 119: 119: 119+ Web citation confirmed. Shorten. 119+ |trans-title= Inquisition judgments valance in the early modern period 120: 120: 121: 121: 122: 122: 122+ OttoBib: 123: 123: 123+ |trans-title= Dominicans at St. Andreas, Cologne

124: 124: 125: 125: 125+ Web citation confirmed. 126: 126: 127: 127: 127+ Web citation confirmed. 128: 128: 128+ https://books.google.com/books/about/Raccolta_dei_decreti_del_governo_provvis.html?id=ehoXekgsSAcC 128+ 128+ |trans-title= Collection of the decrees of the provisional government of Brescia and other papers published in those prints hill 129: 129: 130: 130: 130+ |trans-title= Bulletin of the laws of the Kingdom of Italy

131: 131: 131+ Error 404. Broken link. 131+ Perhaps http://www.dominikanci.hr/index.php/9-vijesti/vijesti1/1062-u-zadru-otkrivena-bista-bl-rajmundu-iz-kapue 131+ |language= Croatian 132: 132: 132+ Web citation confirmed.

133: 133: 133+ url in title is error 133+ 133+ |trans-title= Universal Journal, or Sieno 134: 134: 134+ Web citation confirmed. 134+ |trans-title= The Counter in the city and diocese of Faenza 135: 135: 135+ |trans-title= Collection of orders and notices were published after the Austrian government ceased. Volume 5

136: 136: 136+ |trans-title = Bulletin of the laws and imperial decrees published by the Advisory extraordinary for the Roman States. Vol. 1 137: 137: 138: 138: 139: 139: 139+ Web citation confirmed. 140: 140: 141: 141: 142: 142: 142+ |trans-title= The Historical Archives of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith 143: 143: 143+ |author-link= Juan Antonio Llorente 143+ |url= http://www.gutenberg.org/files/38354/38354-h/38354-h.htm

144: 144: 144+ |trans-title= Journal of general chapters of the Order of Preachers 145: 145: 145+ 145+ 146: 146: 147: 147: 148: 148: 149: 149: 150: 150: 151: 151: 152: 152: 152+ 153: 153: 153+ Lupi, Maria. Il clero a Perugia durante l'episcopato di Gioacchino Pecci (1846-1878): tra stato pontificio e stato unitario. Vol. 57. Herder & Herder, 1998. 153+ |isbn= 9788885876309 153+ |trans-title= EVENTS OF ITALY 1860. CHRONICLES OF POLITICAL-MILITARY FROM 'EMPLOYMENT OF SICILY IN THEN 153+ |trans-title= The clergy in Perugia during the episcopate of Gioacchino Pecci (1846-1878): between papal state and unitary state (Italian) 153+ 153+ |trans-title= The national unification in the Marche. The activities of the Royal Commissioner Extraordinary General Lorenzo Valerio (12 September 1860-18 January 1861) (Italian) 154: 154: 155: 155: 156: 156: 157: 157: 157+ |author-link= Antoine Augustin Calmet 157+ https://books.google.com/books?id=1oBcAAAAcAAJ&pg=PR1&dq=Augustin+Calmet+1751&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFtYyyparMAhVC0GMKHatZAUg4KBDoAQgjMAE#v=onepage&q=Augustin%20Calmet%201751&f=false 157+ 158: 158: 158+ Citation confirmed. 159: 159: 159+ |trans-title= Contribution to the history of the Inquisitors of the Netherlands in the sixteenth century (French) 159+ |trans-title= During the practical work of national history (French) 159+ MLA citation: Duke, Alastair C. Dissident identities in the early modern Low Countries. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd., 2009. 159+ |isbn= 9780754656791 159+

160: 160: 161: 161: 162: 162: 163: 163: 164: 164: 165: 165: 166: 166: 167: 167: 167+ Citation confirmed. 168: 168: 168+ |language= Latin 169: 169: 170: 170: 171: 171: 172: 172: 172+ https://books.google.com/books/about/Die_Reformbeh%C3%B6rde_des_K%C3%B6lner_Kirchenra.html?id=1gARAQAAMAAJ 172+ 172+ |trans-title= The reform authority of the Cologne Council of Churches 1601-1615: a legal-historical investigation 173: 173: 174: 174: 175: 175: 176: 176: 177: 177: 178: 178: 178+ 179: 179: 180: 180: 180: 181: 181: 182: 182: 183: 183: 184: 184: 185: 185: 186: 186: 187: 187: 188: 188: 189: 189: 190: 190: 191: 191: 192: 192: 193: 193: 194: 194: 195: 195: 196: 196: 197: 197: 198: 198: 199: 199: 200: 200: 201: 201: 202: 202: 203: 203: 203+ https://books.google.com/books/about/La_Riforma_Tridentina_in_diocesi_di_Adri.html?id=qUdpAAAAIAAJ 203+ 203+ trans-title= The Tridentine Reformation in the sixteenth century in the diocese of Adria described by the aid of unpublished sources 204: 204: 205: 205: 206: 206: 207: 207: 207+ Web citation confirmed. 208: 208: 209: 209: 210: 210: 211: 211: 212: 212: 213: 213: 214: 214: 214+ 215: 215: 216: 216: 217: 217: 218: 218: 219: 219: 220: 220: 221: 221: 221+ 221+ |trans-title= The bishop, the bishops and churches in the city and diocese of Alexandria 222: 222: 223: 223: 224: 224: 225: 225: 226: 226: 226: 227: 227: 228: 228: 229: 229: 230: 230: 231: 231: 232: 232: 233: 233: 234: 234: 235: 235: 236: 236: 237: 237: 238: 238: 238+ |trans-title= Bishop's Court of Feltre and Inquisitor of Feltre 239: 239: 239+ |trans-title= Inquisition of Aquileia and Concordia 240: 240: 241: 241: 241+ |trans-title= inquisitors table 241+ Web citation confirmed 241+ |trans-title= inquisitorial headquarters in Ivrea 242: 242: 242+ http://zdjp.si/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/anton-maracic.pdf 242+ Annales, Series Historia et Sociologia, 11, 2001, 1 243: 243: 243+ OttoBib: 243+ Web citation confirmed 244: 244: 245: 245: 246: 246: 247: 247: 247: 248: 248: 248+ 249: 249: 250: 250: 251: 251: 252: 252: 253: 253: 254: 254: 255: 255: 256: 256: 257: 257: 258: 258: 259: 259: 259: 260: 260: 260+ {{cite book|author1=William Edward Addis|author2=Thomas Arnold|title=A Catholic Dictionary Containing Some Account of the Doctrine, Discipline, Rites, Ceremonies, Councils and Religious Orders of the Catholic Church Part Two|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=f8dhdXb5vAgC&pg=PA700|date=2004-12-01|publisher=Kessinger Publishing|isbn=978-0-7661-9380-2|pages=700–} 261: 261: 262: 262: 263: 263: 264: 264: 265: 265: 266: 266: 267: 267: 268: 268: 269: 269: 270: 270: 271: 271: 272: 272: 273: 273: 274: 274: 275: 275: 276: 276: 277: 277: 278: 278: 279: 279: 280: 280: 281: 281: 282: 282: 283: 283: 284: 284: 285: 285: 286: 286: 287: 287: 288: 288: 289: 289: 290: 290: 291: 291: 292: 292: 293: 293: 294: 294: 294+ Web citation confirmed. 294+ |trans-title= Inquisition judgments valance in the early modern period 295: 295: 296: 296: 296+ Web citation confirmed. 296+ |trans-title= A small number of studies challenging the Roman Inquisition 297: 297: 297: 298: 298: 299: 299: 300: 300: 301: 301: 302: 302: 302+ Web citation confirmed. 302+ |trans-title= The Historical Archives of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith 302+ |trans-title= The archive of the Inquiry Siena (Latin) 303: 303: 303+ |trans-title= The Inquisition in Malta 304: 304: 305: 305: 306: 306: 306+ url is index 306+ http://www.quaderniestensi.beniculturali.it/QE6/QE6_notizie_alsabbagh.pdf is article 306+ |trans-title= Luca Al Sabbagh on Inquisition cards, Court of Reggio Emilia

307: 307: 307+ Web citation confirmed. 307+ |trans-title= The archives of the Holy Office of Pisa: the complex, the institution and the analytical description 308: 308: 308+ |trans-title= Inquisition of Florence 309: 309: 310: 310: 310+ |trans-title= inquisitorial trials and various documents relating to the Inquisition of Genoa 311: 311: 312: 312: 313: 313: 314: 314: 314+ |trans-title= inquisitorial trials of Belluno 315: 315: 316: 316: 316+ 317: 317: 318: 318: 318+ 319: 319: 319+ |trans-title= Diocese of Acqui. Court of the Inquisition 320: 320: 320+ |trans-title= Bishop's curia of Novara. Ecclesiastical court. 321: 321: 321+ 322: 322: 322+ |trans-title= Turin diocese. ecclesiastical court 323: 323: 324: 324: 324+ |trans-title= Holy Office of Lodi 325: 325: 326: 326: 326+ |trans-title= Inquisition of Savona 327: 327: 327: 328: 328: 328+ |trans-title= Inquisition of Florence 329: 329: 330: 330: 330+ |trans-title= The Historical Archives of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith 331: 331: 331+ |trans-title= The Historical Archives of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith 332: 332: 333: 333: Del Col, pp. 736-737, 793, 890; Schutte, pp. 100-105; ; ;  333: 333+ |trans-title= The archives of the Holy Office in Rome (Latin) 333+ |trans-title= The Historical Archives of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith 333+ Web citation confirmed 334: 334: 335: 335: 336: 336: 337: 337: 337+ |trans-title= manuscript index in 1876 by Giuseppe Giomo, Luigi Pasini 338: 338: 338+ 339: 339: 340: 340: 340+ |trans-title= The Inquisition trials of Modena. General analytical inventory (1489-1784) 340+ Mentioned in http://www.storiaevangelicamodena.info/scheda.asp?ID=3&pagina=3 341: 341: 341+ Ditto 342: 342: 342+ http://www.quaderniestensi.beniculturali.it/QE5/QE5_andarpercarte_alsabbagh.pdf 342+ |trans-title= The case of Bernardo Bellini from sollicitatio offense to turpia to cataloging the Inquisition of Reggio Emilia processes between the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries 343: 343: 343: 344: 344: 345: 345: 346: 346: 347: 347: 347+ BROGINI, Anne. Malte, frontière de chrétienté (1530-1670). New edition [online]. Rome: Publications de l’École française de Rome, 2005 (generated 28 April 2016). Available on the Internet: . ISBN: 9782728309979. 347+ |trans-title= Malta, Christianity border (1530-1670) 348: 348: 349: 349: 350: 350: 351: 351: 351+ Citation confirmed. 352: 352: 353: 353: 353+ |trans-title= Inquisition of Florence 354: 354: 355: 355: 356: 356: 356+ Citation confirmed 356+ |trans-title= ... and the Reformation in Faenza 357: 357: 358: 358: 358+ ; 359: 359: 360: 360: 360: 361: 361: 361+ Citation confirmed. Punishment and Penance: Two Phases in the History of the Bishop's Tribunal of Novara, Thomas B. Deutscher, University of Toronto Press, Feb 20, 2013 362: 362: 363: 363: 364: 364: 365: 365: 365+ 366: 366: 367: 367: 368: 368: 369: 369: 370: 370: 371: 371: 372: 372: 373: 373: 374: 374: 375: 375: 376: 376: 377: 377: 378: 378: 379: 379: 380: 380: 381: 381: 382: 382: 383: 383: 383+ Web citation confirmed. 383+ 384: 384: 385: 385: 385+ Perhaps Cenni storici intorno al Tribunale dell'Inquisizione in Mantova | Davari S. 385+ in http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/2048088/oai_www_internetculturale_it_metaoaicat_oai_bid_braidense_it_7_MI0185_EVA_113_A60330.html 386: 386: 387: 387: 387+ https://books.google.com/books?id=LNA3AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=Notizie+amministrative,+storiche,+artistiche+relative+a+Ferrara.+Tomo+primo&source=bl&ots=DJW_B5RNv2&sig=aeOl-gSVNnWGH42EOamdybq9LJ0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis8dvrkbLMAhVOwGMKHYTzBjUQ6AEIJDAC#v=onepage&q=Notizie%20amministrative%2C%20storiche%2C%20artistiche%20relative%20a%20Ferrara.%20Tomo%20primo&f=false 387+ 387+ |trans-title= administrative news, historical, artistic about Ferrara obtained from documents and illustrated by Louis Napoleon Cav. Citadel: II, 3 388: 388: 389: 389: 390: 390: 390+ Web citation confirmed 391: 391: 392: 392: 392+ Author and title linked on web search. 393: 393: 394: 394: 395: 395: 395+ OttoBib: 396: 396: 397: 397: 398: 398: 399: 399: 399+ OttoBib: 400: 400: 400: 401: 401: 402: 402: 403: 403: 404: 404: 404: 405: 405: 405: 406: 406: 406+ Web citation confirmed. 406+ Web citation confirmed. 407: 407: 408: 408: 409: 409: 409+ Web citation confirmed --> 104.173.68.20 (talk) 20:49, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 104.173.68.20 (talk) 20:49, 28 April 2016 (UTC) 104.173.68.20 (talk) 17:45, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Proposed Bibliography (with some comments)









 * ISBN confirmed by lookupbyisbn.com








 * Inconsistent year of publication


























 * WorldCat confirms citation. ISBN-10: 1422374602 ISBN-13: 9781422374603 per ebookdb.org


 * ISBN checked in text.




 * Orlandi was editor & 2nd author


 * 40 volume set of papal history first published in German. All volumes are now available in English online as distinct files from the Internet Archive (See Ludwig von Pastor).  Edited, translated and published by many over decades.








 * WorldCat confirms citation.


 * Citation confirmed by WorldCat


















 * 104.173.68.20 (talk) 19:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

April 12 Status
Very little in the references needs translation. I have found few errors in the Polish text. A tiny problem is the conversion of "s." to "p." or "pp." depending on context. I am trying for a computerized approach using pattern matching. Progress is good, but slow because I am learning a new computer language for implementation. I may do some of this translation manually to avoid extra coding for Roman numeral pages. I may eventually be able to convert the reference templates ("Cite book", "Cite web"...) accurately in software. A competent programmer could do the job well in a few hours. ;-( For the time being batch search-and-replace methods are adequate.

I have learned more about URLs. They used to be simple, but now include search strings, etc. Google book citations produce an interesting mess for a URL. The URLs depend on the searcher's site and/or language.

I could use advice on the conversion of place names in citations. Should the various forms of "Rome" (as the location of the publisher) be translated from the Italian, German, French, Polish, Latin...?

I prioritize translation ahead of reference improvements because there are many hundreds of "s." translations.104.173.68.20 (talk) 19:17, 12 April 2016 (UTC)