Talk:Romy Schneider

Untitled comment
She was so beautiful.In the book of will mcbride,who took the photos that were just shot after the break-up with alain delon, she looks so vulnerable and truly beautiful.

Mädchenjahre einer Königin is about the early years of Queen Victoria! What is written about this film, tells the plot of Sissi.
 * This is utter nonsense. The movie describes Sissis' later years--Nemissimo (talk) 13:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC) … Schicksalsjahre einer Kaiserin (!)

I don't understand this, Mrs 210.49.196.232: Why should anyone want to *remove* the place of death from a biography and have the user scan the whole article in order to find out? --KF 13:31 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)

I am a Mister and i merely adjusted the article to fit in with the Wikipedia Manual of Style regarding birth and death dates

Paul Melville Austin


 * Hey Paul - how about creating an account here? Otherwise you are listed in the recent changes as just an anonymous Internet address number, which tends to make people slightly more suspicious :-). Just click the "Log in" link on the top, enter the account name (e.g. Paul Melville) and the password (twice) and click the "Create account" link. (If you also enter the email address, Wikipedia can send your password to you in case you have forgotten it, and other users may send you e-mail through Wikipedia, although your address is not shown publicly.) Have fun, and I hope you stick around! --Eloquence

Thanks mate - your nicer than some around here - i'l create an account as you suggest

PMA - And its done :)


 * Nice. You can click on the user name in recent changes (should be red now) to add a personal user page. Also, you can set all sorts of nifty stuff in the user preferences, and add pages to your personal watchlist. Yeah, Wikipedia is a bit rough at times, because people from so many different fields and points of view come together, but that's also one of the reasons it's worth it. Update: I see you already discovered the user page - great. --Eloquence

Zoe, don't you see that this is not about Romy Schneider at all?


 * Doesn't matter. This is a discussion of the history of the creation of the article.  -- Zoe


 * NO, IT ISN'T. This is why I deleted it. This is exactly why I clicked on this talk page in the first place: to see what someone had to say about the article I had written months ago. Only then did I find out that there wasn't anything here except instructions for newbies on how to create a user account. But I'm a peace-loving sort of person, so if you insist -- okay. --KF 01:28 Apr 7, 2003 (UTC)

"German-speaking tabloids ?"

I'm a little unsure if it's a common phrase in english ? A newspaper doesn't speak ? Ericd 01:27 Apr 7, 2003 (UTC)

I'd say German tabloids or German language tabloids. -- Zoe

Gay Icon Project
In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 22:13, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Nationality
She is german. Vienna was german in 1938.

She was a German national all her life. Her mother, from whom she got her last name, was German, her father Austrian. The French and German Wikipedias list her as German. I think simply calling her Austrian is a little unsatisfactory. She --128.176.21.199 20:45, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

She may have had dual citizenship. She was born in Vienna. Her father was Austrian, etc. -Maggie 26 August 06

--

PHOTO Would it be possible to post a picture from the 70's instead the one shown? While it's a nice picture, I think she's not easily recognizable there. -- Maggie, 8.26.06

In 1938 Vienna was in Germany,because Austria was adopted to Germany. So she was a German-Austrian actress.

Her Mother was a Bavarian German and her father adopted German Citizenship before the Anschluss. That makes her at least Austrian-German.

There´s a big discussion in german wiki what nationality she is. I think it´s not right to say she was german because she was born in vienna while WW2. There are also quotations in whitch she said that she wants to be seen as an austrian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.189.244.125 (talk) 06:28, 14 July 2010 (UTC) It is right to say, that she was a german actress, because Austria was a german part at this time an in the most days in the fast. Autrians are also germans like bavarians.

Austria is not part of Germany. It's an own country. --62.47.185.229 (talk) 17:51, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

She was never Austrian, her parents were both German when she was born and Vienna was part of the German Reich at that time. So she couldn't be Austrian-born. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.149.72.94 (talk) 14:44, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Death
The German page (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romy_Schneider) claims that a post-mortem examination was carried out, and that it revealed that she did not commit suicide (which appears to be an invention of the tabloids). See also the circumstances of her death as outlined here: http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/kino/0,1518,485491,00.html (German language link; will disappear in a few months, unfortunately).

Tomb robbery
I can't find any verification for the story of the ransacking of her grave and I've put a Template:Fact on it. If no confirmation is forthcoming, I'm going to delete that paragraph. Michael Bednarek 15:23, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Abortion
Romy can be seen on the front of June 1971's Stern magazine as one of 374 women who admit to having had an abortion despite it being illegal. This was very famous and controversial at the time and I think it's worth mentioning. http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_image.cfm?image_id=1592 Handrejka —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.68.205 (talk) 18:27, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hardly noteworthy outside Germany. It is indeed mentioned in de:Romy Schneider and I have added your source there — thanks for that. Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Birthname
A recent edit at de:Romy Schneider stated that her birthname was Albach, not Albach-Retty. The latter was her father's stage name, borrowed from his mother, whose name was indeed Albach-Retty (she was born a Retty and married Karl Albach). I'm going to change this article accordingly. See also: aeiou, filmportal.de, tombstone etc. Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Literature
I finally found a reference for the "Literature" which was added by an anonymous editor. The proper reference for the work is this monstrous URL; however, I'm not sure such a slim volume (33 pages) warrants a mention. Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:38, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Birth place
I have just changed Vienna, Austria to Vienna, Nazi Germany as the latter part always identifies the sovereign entity, which at the time of her birth was Nazi Germany. I have chosen to write Nazi Germany rather than just Germany to avoid any confusion. I am writing this because I have just noticed that someone reverted a similar edit yesterday. So let me stress this once again: there was no sovereign entity called Austria at the time (there wasn't even an administrative entity called Austria; until the 1939 Ostmarkgesetz the Länder (Carinthia, Lower Austria etc.) were the admistrative units). So Austria is not only not top-level, it is non-existant. --85.181.239.237 (talk) 12:34, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Too specific. See other examples like Dagmar Koller or it also doesn't say that Horst Tappert was born in the Weimar Republic. It is not important for this article to mention the anschluss (or the result of it). Garion96 (talk) 13:31, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) If you think Nazi Germany is too specific, fine. Germany alone will do.


 * 2) Austria, however, is not correct. I have pointed out why. Why did you choose not to address this concern? She was born in Vienna, Vienna (Land), Germany. The middle part is usually omitted in Wikipedia. No Austria in there.


 * 3) As for Dagmar Koller, it is wrong there too. She was born in Klagenfurt, Carinthia (Land/Gau), Germany.


 * 4a) Even if it were irrelevant that there was no Austria at the time, Wikipedia articles would still have to be correct, which Vienna, Austria is not. We are writing about things as they have happened, not about things as we wish they had happened. And I cannot see why one would want to withhold this piece of information.


 * 4b) Of course it is relevant. Owing to the circumstances, she was born a German citizen. Contrary to most people born in the "Ostmark" or in pre-Anschluss Austria, she decided to keep German citizenship and not exchange it for Austrian citizenship after the war. In other words, her being born in Nazi-era Vienna did leave a lasting mark on her life. --85.181.234.46 (talk) 15:01, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This seems rather strong. Austria did not cease to exist as a region in 1938, any more that Bavaria has ceased to exist since 1871; it stopped being a sovereign state. This is a moderately important detail; but not one warranting a revert war. I would use Vienna in the infobox, and "born in Vienna, six months after the Anschluss of Austria into Nazi Germany" in the text, myself; but there are many reasonable solutions. The  point is to communicate with the reader, with  links, since some readers, seventy years later, will not understand if we don't explain. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There is an important difference between Bavaria in 1871 and Austria in 1938. Neither of the two was sovereign afterwards, but Bavaria didn't cease to exist politically; it continued life as one of the many Länder of Germany. Austria, however, did not. After the Anschluss there was no political entity called Austria. The Länder on formerly Austrian soil were not in any may mediatized. Also, you will find that people born in Bavaria in late 1871 are listed in Wikipedia as being born in City, Germany, not in City, Bavaria. You are, of course, right that culturally speaking Austria didn't disappear. However, as I have pointed out, my understanding has been so far that birth and death places in Wikipedia are of the format Town/City, Sovereign Entity. And changing facts to match today's perception of what is just or would have been just, is poisonous for any kind of reference work. The article should of course offer the context. I will now try to do that. Feel free to comment on the outcome of that. --89.245.242.40 (talk) 10:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All this is fine to discuss in articles about Austria and the Anschluss. In articles about actors it is, as others wrote already, irrelevant. In addition to Dagmar Koller, I can name at least five other actors from that period where their Wikipedia articles simply state Austria (one of them named Sissy, another appeared in a film together with RS). The current phrasing "was born … a good six months after the Anschluss in Nazi-era Vienna" raises some unspecified expectation of relevance in the reader, which of course doesn't exist; it should be removed. Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As I have written above (4b), it does have relevance. If you don't think it has, please be more specific as to why you think it doesn't. I am not accepting any arguments of the kind "the truth can be misleading" that have been brought forward against changing Austria to Germany in the Infobox. Wikipedia can explain why something is/was the way it is/was but it shouldn't fiddle with things just so it's more readily consumable. (The only reason it's still there is that I want the context to be in place before correcting it again because I agree that context matters.) Also, if you are unhappy with the wording, please suggest an alternative. I put it there because people here were concerned too little or no (and not too much) context would raise questions. And like it or not, Dagmar Koller and others that found themselves in the same situation were born German citizens, however they, or Wikipedia for that matter, chose to deal with that after the war. It may not be particularly interesting in their cases; in Schneider's case it is. --89.245.242.20 (talk) 09:42, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 04:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071104152425/http://sz-shop.sueddeutsche.de/szpopups/serie_noire/dvd03_starportrait_Schneider.html to http://sz-shop.sueddeutsche.de/szpopups/serie_noire/dvd03_starportrait_Schneider.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071121025028/http://www.wieninternational.at/de/node/4375/print to http://www.wieninternational.at/de/node/4375/print
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100616000356/http://merveilleuseromy.typepad.fr/inoubliableromy/2009/03/adieu-ma-puppel%C3%A9.html to http://merveilleuseromy.typepad.fr/inoubliableromy/2009/03/adieu-ma-puppel%C3%A9.html

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Later carreer: possible vandalism
"(...) the last guest, bank robber and author Burkhard Driest: (...)". 89.64.16.127 (talk) 04:39, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Driest committed a bank robbery in 1965 and was convicted to a term of 5 years' imprisonment of which he served 3; see de:Burkhard Driest. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:21, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Whether to include praise quotes
reached out to me on my talk page to ask about navigating their recent content dispute with on this article. In general, after anyone gets reverted the first time, it's best to start a new section on the article talk page (here) and discuss in a conversation instead of cluttering up the article history with reverts. As a third party who is up for taking a look, it's a lot harder for me to follow what's going on if I have to just wade through the history - much easier if I can read an actual conversation.

Still, let's see if I can figure this out piece by piece - seems the dispute is about the following sentences:


 * Lead section: "Coco Chanel called Romy “the ultimate incarnation of the ideal woman.”" and "Bertrand Tavernier remarked: “Sautet is talking about Mozart with regard to Romy. Me, I want to talk of Verdi, Mahler…”"
 * Later career section: ""Sissi sticks to me just like oatmeal", Schneider once said." and "Paris Match wrote in 1971: "Forty years after Greta and Marlene, fifteen years after Marilyn, the screen again has a great star.""

The first and second quotes are not appropriate for the lead section (Manual of Style/Lead section), because it's supposed to be a "concise overview of the article's topic", and her popularity is already covered in a general sense earlier in the lead. The third one seems like a random choice - why quote directly from Schneider instead of giving a well-sourced sentence-sized overview of how she felt about the role? The fourth one seems out of chronological order.

There is not enough context about the first three quotes, so they're hard for me to interpret. When did these people say those things, and in what context? It's possible they're appropriate to include in the "Enduring popularity" section. But if they were to be included, the first two should be cited to specific pages in the books. It's hard to verify statements that are cited to an entire book.

In general it seems helpful to include some amount of detail in the article to back up the claims in the lead about "regarded as one of the greatest screen actresses of all time" and "became a cult figure". But it needs to be included with context and in the appropriate location in the article to maintain an encyclopedic approach. Dreamyshade (talk) 00:59, 6 May 2024 (UTC)