Talk:Ron Stoppable

Please read and discuss
I've just checked the Contrast section and I won't make any more modifications to it.

Here's what I changed.

I've just substituted two words and put "steriotypical mad scientist characteristics" for a more accurate statement and also "Apitude in several physical activities". I've also added in the "Evil Ron" reference the fact he showed a high level of forethought.

The greatest change I made was adding another point to the Contrast section about "A deep level of reflection and forethought". I've stated this is one of the rarest characteristics we see from Ron(and it's true is that it is rare) in order to be consistent with PerfectBlue's corrections.

The reason I have put this is that despite being very rare, it is a trait shown by him in certain occasions. In Sink or Swin he mislead Gill and even said loudly "Rufus, did you check the gas?" in order to lure him and in the end Gill was surprised to see that the boat did have fuel. In The Twin Factor, it's my opinion that the traits he showed there were also of quick thinking and quick reflection and curiously not of physical ability since it's seems that he didn't do any out of the normal physical activities, besides destroying the doors commands. You'll notice Ron does these moves "crazy" moves frequently and like it is written, the creators always thought of Ron as someone who does crazy and most unusual moves likes the ones in The Twin Factor and also in other episodes. In short, my opinion is that The Twin Factor example shouldn't be used as a physical example but as an example for the forethought and reflection trait(but I haven't changed that yet). Finally, we have Bad Boy, I know this is repeated right the phrase below but I think that we should put all the main examples in this point.

Concerning the Sick Day episode, well, it does show both sides of the coin, for instance, the operation Ron planed was quite complex and tactical in terms of avoiding detection(except in the end when Shego passed through him) but it's also a great example for showing his aptitudes at several physical activities. It's difficult to determine where should we put this, whether it is in the physical trait or the reflection trait, however I'm willing to leave it in the physical trait because if a kid looks at this episode and analyzes things I think it's most likely the kid will think about the physical activities because that's perhaps the "main" trait showed in the episode although without the reflection, in other words the plan, this would have not worked.

This is my view on the matter. If we agreed to these points I've stated then perhaps the Twin Factor example could be just mentioned in the "reflection and forethought" trait and eliminated from the physical trait.

Any thoughts?

Thorius Maximus 14:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Just a couple of notes


 * 1) "Reflection" usually implies "a deep introspect" (See The Thinker), which isn't really a Ron thing in any of those episodes. He's made some abstract comments in the past though.
 * 2) Ron's plans in "Sick day" were a little over complex, which I think was the point being made, rather than the fact that he pulled the plan off.

perfectblue 20:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, Ron doesn't normally reflect much, but on the rare occasion yes. Concerning those unusual reflections of him about certain view on life or about situations, those reflections aren't always complex but they are unsual in the sence that's he's using logics that are in a different perspective from those of others, and this contributes for an even greater image of him being a "wierd person". Yet I don't plan on writing this down in the contrast section because it's already in the Personality section, although this does show the trait that Ron does tend to reflect on unusal points of view and at the same they may or may not be complex, on the not so usual occasion.

Concerning reflection. On the usual occasion Ron doesn't reflect about anything at all. I may have used the wrong words for the bullet point, but lets analyse things: When not in missions, we have those more or less often moments when Ron gives those unusal reflections, the fact that it's an unusual point of view indicates he explored and compreended the theme(this is necessary) and by understanding the theme he can then come up with the unusual point of view, this does indicate reflection, in fact, in future season 4 eps we'll see Ron deeply reflecting about his position in the word, not to mention the already existing eps from season 4 show he thinks much about this new situation he is in, although in previous we see him deeply reflecting about other subjects(that are under his interest). In short it's this, he reflects deeply when he's interested, after all, I did say in the bullet point that this is a rare thing from Ron(but it can happen frequently depending on the situations he's in), it's all a matter of interest to him. Concerning missions, in order to come up with those forethoughting plans and the misleading tactics, he must reflect, otherwise there is more action at all.

Sick Day is actually a good example, he thought of the entire mission, and it did work, despite Shego seeing him in the end. All steps of that operaion seem to have been carefully planed. This is a deep introspect isn't it?

Or should we use another word besides reflection? Perhaps tactical mind? It's that, isn't forethought the exact same thing as reflection? Because it composes the exact same psychological procedures. I thought reflection was the "general word". For instance, when Ron starts reflecting about his status and place in this world or when he starts reflecting about unusual points of view this isn't forethought but reflection, however, during missions, he reflects, but with the purpose of thinking ahead and predict, thus forethought.

Isn't the word reflection meerely a "general" description of all these mental processes? What other word would you then suggest to substitute reflection? It's that forethought is a word correct under a certain description(and it's what happens in missions), but this is has a speciffic meaning that is only applied under a speciffic situation. Those reflections he made during his "free time" from missions aren't forethought.

What if we do thing this way? Since in the personality section we already mention his unusual reflections, then we would just mention in the contrast section his demonstrations during missions, thus it would be just forethought and thus we could change the bullet point title, but we would still have write that this is on the very rare occasion(like it is mentioned in the bullet point now). But if we go this way, then I think we should mention the "Sick Day" situation in the bullet point, it's a prime example.

What do you think of this?

Thorius Maximus 23:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * As you said, this is a vocabulary issue rather than a cannon issue. Introspect and reflection usually imply that somebody has sat down and thought deeply about something. Ron's brilliance and depth normally comes in flashes, rather than as a result of him sitting down and pondering something. "introspect and reflection" kind of make Ron sound like a philosopher.


 * How about we say that he has "moments of insight" or "flashes of inspiration/brilliance". Or something similar?


 * perfectblue 14:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps "flashes of inspiration/brilliance" is a more accurate description.

You got yourself a deal. :P

Yet we are talking about the contrast during the missions, because during his normal life these reflections are seen relatively often.

I'll Suited is a good example of this, the time he went on reflecting was aproximately somewhat more than a day.

Thorius Maximus 18:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Running back though operating as a wide receiver
I saw that comment in the Trivia section of this article. Maybe that simply means Middleton runs a West Coast offense or something else that uses a running back as a regular target (like the 49ers did with Roger Craig or Ricky Watters). WAVY 10 15:37, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

There are a few explainations I've come up with:
 * West coast offense. However, it does look like Ron is catching a long pass, while West Coast uses shorter passes.
 * The team is trying Ron out in a variety of possitions. It is High School after all, and he's a new player.
 * Whoever did the storyboarding/animation has no idea what a running back is. Ace-o-aces 18:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Or, alternatively, the quarterback got flushed out of the pocket, none of the wideouts were free, and the quarterback wisely threw to safety valve Ron instead. Or it's a trick play.  Or, most likely of all, since they were in a hurry-up mode for a comeback, they shifted Ron over to tight end to have another viable target--his speed would be valuable when you're trying to make yards after the catch in a two-minute drill.  Rdfox 76 19:11, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Possible, but I'm almost sure they showed him cathing two separate passes. Ace-o-aces 04:01, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I think any of those could be possible (no pun intended). WAVY 10 14:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

image change
Nothing personal, but I changed the image because I think that we should start off the section on Ron's personality on a high note, and leave pictures of dark Ron until it is explained who and what dark Ron is.

perfectblue 14:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Whatever. The more pictures, the better I say.

=CJK= 13:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Hum, concerning what or "who" "dark Ron" is was in a cartoonish way shown to simply be Ron's personality but when under the influence of evil. Or am I misunderstanding something concerning your statement PerfectBlue?

One more thing, "dark Ron" isn't the best description, nor is Zorpox to alot of extents, the most correct description in my opinion would be simply "Evil Ron" since the factor that makes Ron who he is while evil is simply the influence evil has on him without changing his personality, that's why I always write the words Evil Ron, for the sake of "logical accuracy".

By the way, the Zorpox(Evil Ron) page was scraped and a section of it was put in the Ron Stoppable page. I think this makes that a lot of information is lost and readers would perhaps miss something that is informative and better informs them?

Thorius Maximus 23:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

When was that deleted? Is there any way to get it back?

=CJK= 20:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

It should remain one page. Considering that there are only an episode and a half about Evil Ron, that doesn't need a full page. A small sub section in this article is enough. Despite his popularity, he is but a minor villain in the over all story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.9.3 (talk) 06:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup
I think this article could use a bit of a cleanup. It just seems more cluttered then it needs to be. --Erased Paper 06:28, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

In what way does it need cleanup? How big a change are you suggesting? --=CJK= 20:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Question
Is it known for sure if Ron being the Supreme Monkey Master will be revealed in the season finale? Because I remember the page saying something about the MMP ending storyline wasn't that Oh No Yono!--The K.O. King 01:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

No it wasn't ended there. It was in the sense of Monkey Fist but not in the terms of Ron's development. I would have been very disappointed if that was their idea of a conclusion for that story line. I wont give any spoilers but the MMM story line WILL be finished by the last episode. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.9.3 (talk) 06:04, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

You were right.--The K.O. King 00:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Pictures
I think that the article needs more pictures. It is also a little long. But other than that, Good Job! :D Dinobert 02:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)Dinobert06