Talk:Ronin (Marvel Comics)

Not appeared yet
The character has not even appeared yet (in costume), there'll probably need to be a merge tag slapped on it once the ID is revealed, so exactly why is there a page on this here and now? - SoM 15:51, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, as of now, Ronin is conceived as an entirely new and different character, so he has his own page right now, though everything here is speculative. If this character is Dardevil's or anyone else's new alias or costume, I'll support the merge with all my heart. Windspinner 02:50, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * "though everything here is speculative" - And therein lies my problem. WP:NOT a crystal ball. - SoM 10:00, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep it for now. If he turns out to be a pre-existing character, merge it then. --DrBat 00:22, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. The only thing that suggests that this is a new identity for an existing character is a bit of meaningless and unreasonable speculation on the internet. If you delete it now it will just have to be re-written when it turns out that the rumors were poorly founded.--Stranger Dan 17:53, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * "Bendis made a point to tell attendants that Ronin in New Avengers is not Daredevil. He said people have guessed the identity of Ronin, but no one has got it right yet. " If it's not a pre-existing character, that's one hell of a cheat - SoM 18:09, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe we should keep it for now. We should merge it later only when we found out if Ronin is indeed another re-dressed old character. -- Windspinner 00:02, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

http://www.herorealm.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4897 Heh. --15:19, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Articles for Deletion debate
This article survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Splash talk 22:16, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Merge?
If Ronin does indeed turn out to be Echo, then should be merge this article to hers, or vice vera? Or perhaps create a new article using her real name and merge the content there?--Kross | Talk 19:10, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'm really having doubts about this "Echo is Ronin" claim. I just Googled for more information about it, and this supposed "Ultimate New Avengers Guide" appears to be whole lotta horse hokey.  The guide in question, appears to be one for the Avengers in general (probably before the New Avengers).  Its cover doesn't have any members of the New Avengers save for Cap and Iron Man.  Also, I've read some posts from different forums and the people there have pointed out how Echo couldn't be Ronin.  The build is all wrong (I know you can tape down breasts, but give me a break!).  Ronin is also supposed to have connections to both Kingpin and The Hand.  I'm going to remove the whole part about Echo being Ronin, until we can get more concrete evidence.--Kross | Talk 19:43, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Me, too. But do reserve that portion be it true and I do wish it to be. More on the DK Press Guide, I think it is supposed to have something about the New Avengers. Shame on them if it doesn't. The DK Press is known for making good guides and also for spoiling lots of storylines, and this Ronin storyline might be joining that list soon enough. Echo has connections to Kingpin, I think, and as Cap said, they're questionable. But The Hand, that I am not sure; maybe she died and was resurrected by them Hand people. With regards to the physique, it has been suggested that if Ronin is a woman then she might be wearing a padded suit, and it makes sense as it is really hard to survive a hail of shurikens and arrows if the next thing after your suit is your skin. The only thing that throws off this Echo-Ronin connection is that Echo is deaf, and you can't be deaf when you're spying! But it's possible, then again. He only said that Madame Hydra was there and he wasn't able to hear any of their conversations. Shucks. Hope it turns out to be Echo. Hopefully by November 30, 2005, we can merge this article with Echo's. --Windspinner 05:09, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Biased View
I have some trouble with the block of text from a previous version:
 * It should be noted, though, that due to the widespread backlash against New Avengers and the book's writer Brian Michael Bendis, that the identity might change. Indeed, the fact that the first appearance of the character was moved from New Avengers #5 to New Avengers #11, has led to widespread speculation that Ronin was indeed originally planned to be Daredevil, but that the plan was aborted due to the backlash regarding Bendis killing off the previous Avengers roster and replacing them with the regular cast of "Bendis Favorites", characters Bendis habitually ramrods into any book he writes even if they have no real tangible connection to the characters in the book Bendis is writing.

It took me some time to decide but I deem the text above biased and out of topic. Hence, I removed it. New Avengers is currently Marvel's Number one comic in terms of sales, selling as much as 120K per issue; I don't see the widespread backlash mentioned above. Clearly, a sentiment of an unhappy fan. Anyone agrees with me that this text block be removed? --Windspinner 03:48, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

How about now?
Well, after reading the following text from Avengers: The Ultimate Guide, I think merging is the only and right thing to do:
 * "Once called Echo because of her ability to copy any move she saw, Maya Lopez, alias Ronin, is a skilled martial artist and weapons expert. She is also deaf and Daredevil's girlfriend. He recommended her to Captain America."

Lesfer &#9742; 03:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Dude, have you NOT been paying attention? There is some dispute on whether or not that guide is accurate.  Thats why we're waiting until the issue itself comes out.--Kross | Talk 04:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Wow, Issue 13 hits the Philippine racks tomorrow, so I can confirm myself or something. But I think the guide is quite accurate, I mean it was written by Tom de Falco and it's highly probable, but I am still reserving a little doubt just in case it turns out to be an advertising propaganda for issue 13. And oh by the way, some areas in guide the about the New Avengers are quite dubious like Wolverine being a major help in Savage Land dealing with the dinosaurs, and oh, there were so many typographical (grammatical) errors in that book. Wow, I've just contradicted myself. Let's wait til issue 13, we've managed to wait for a month, why can't we wait for a day more. --Windspinner 05:43, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure we'll wait another day! So, you are supposing the page shot is a fake? Or even that the guide is being published with wrong information? Lesfer &#9742; 13:32, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Final, absolute proof
[http://tinypic.com/i1cjk1.jpg Yes, it's a spoiler link. Your point?]. Can we bloody well merge the pages now?! - SoM 18:20, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, case closed. Lesfer &#9742; 19:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree that the pages should be merged, but if Echo is using the alias Ronin now, shouldn't the page be merged to Ronin instead of Echo? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:25, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't think so. Echo is an older character who happens to be using a new alias - Ronin. Lesfer &#9742; 22:45, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * But if she isn't using the alias anymore, and it seems to be permanent... ah well. I won't belabour the point. Just toss it out for consideration. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * If the name sticks, maybe (with the ID revealed, I wouldn't be shocked if she reverts to the Echo name whether or not she keeps the Ronin costume - the line in the linked panel suggests that in an ambiguous way). I merged to Echo rather than Ronin tho simply because it was easier to disambig that way round. - SoM 23:53, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Shucks, I was just supposed to upload that pic of proof when I saw this on my watchlist. Maybe I am not supposed to do that after all. Oh well, perhaps we should really discuss this over before we head into any merging. My vote is to Merge Ronin with Echo since Echo is an older character, or we make a Maya Lopez page and merge Ronin and Echo with that. And also, I think she'd keep the Echo guise. --Windspinner 23:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Possible ronin's
Should we talk about some of the people who are strongly speculated to be Ronin? I.E. Hawkeye and Captain America.


 * Do you mean talk here or do you mean we should add a list of possibilities on the actual page? MrDenton 17:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Ronin is a cover identity used by several characters
I know that this is technically correct, but so far there have only been two people using the Ronin identity and "several" doesn't really mean the same as "two" to most people. This part of the article really sounds like there have been many different Ronin over the years. Unless anyone objects I'd like to do a minor rewrite to make it a little more clear. MrDenton 17:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ultimateronin.PNG
Image:Ultimateronin.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ultimateronin.PNG
Image:Ultimateronin.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 19:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NEWAVN011 cov.jpg
Image:NEWAVN011 cov.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Daredevil as Ronin
Marvel released some preview art of the New Avengers foiling some kind of robbery or supervillain attack, complete with Daredevil, in his red costume. This wasn't something that appeared in the main book, but rather in another title, possibly Amazing Fantasy. Does anyone remember where that preview was from? I think it would be useful to include it here. Kelvingreen (talk) 18:03, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I've seen the scene you are talking about (I think they were introducing some math/gambling themed superhero and it was on TV at a bar.) but as you said Daredevil was Daredevil in that scene so it doesn't really have anything to do with Ronin. It was just a team up.--Stranger Dan (talk) 00:52, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Roninecho.png
The image Image:Roninecho.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


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Infobox image
- J Greb (talk) 22:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Image deletion nomination(s)
One or more images currently used in this article have been nominated for deletion as violations of the non-free content criteria (NFCC).

You can read more about what this means and why these files are being nominated for deletion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics.

You can participate at the deletion discussion(s) at Files for discussion/2020 April 29. If you are not familiar with NFCC-related deletion discussions, I recommend reading the post linked above first.

Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 04:14, 29 April 2020 (UTC)