Talk:Rose Bowl (cricket ground)

Untitled
As it's actually outside Southampton, shouldn't we rename the article Rose Bowl (cricket ground) or Rose Bowl, Hampshire? Jess Cully 19:15, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

New Developments
There doesn’t seem to be any information as regards to the developments currently taking place to increase capacity with new stands etc. Which should be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wintonian (talk • contribs) 05:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Rename?
Is there a convincing reason this article shouldn't be renamed Ageas Bowl? Khendon (talk) 19:42, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 18:14, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Rose Bowl (cricket ground) → The Ageas Bowl (cricket ground) – Due to a naming rights agreement on 27 February 2012 the ground is now known as the Ageas Bowl and is therefore the name that most accurately describes the article. The Ageas Bowl is also the name most frequently used by people referring to the ground 217.39.129.105 (talk) 16:21, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Support - In response to the opposing points above, I would like to put forward some supporting comments for changing the article title to the Ageas Bowl (cricket ground) List of media:
 * Oppose Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's just the current sponser, isn't it? Compare Old Trafford Cricket Ground, not Emirates Old Trafford and The Oval, not Kia Oval. Also, if it was to move, the (cricket ground) disambig isn't needed, as there's nothing at The Ageas Bowl.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 17:05, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose, we don't use sponsors names in article titles.  Harrias  talk 13:02, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose In my experience "(The) Rose Bowl" is still more widely used locally. However certainly there should be redirects here from Ageas Bowl etc.  W a g g e r s  TALK  13:22, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - stadium names changed due to sponsorships tend to change over time. The ground will be constantly changing. --MicroX (talk) 03:01, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) I understand this to be a six-year sponsorship deal, so will not be coming and going on a regular basis. In addition, depending on future sponsorship agreements, it may never be called the Rose Bowl again.
 * 2) Wikipedia is publicly available to be edited and therefore, not a fixed entity. By its very nature, it does not require information on the database to be static and immovable because it is able to be changed quickly and easily in order to correctly reflect the state of its subjects.
 * 3) The list below details key national media (as well as all local media without exception) who all refer to the ground as The Ageas Bowl, thus meaning all available information about the ground in a lead up to major events refers to ground by it's correct name....
 * 4) Regarding the comment about not referring to articles by sponsors’ names the article for Arsenal’s Emirates Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_Stadium) shows this is clearly not the case.
 * BBC example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23615667
 * Sky Sports example: http://www1.skysports.com/live-scores/cricket/hampshire-v-surrey/13962/8872391/article
 * Telegraph example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10231152/Womens-Ashes-2013-Could-this-finally-be-a-golden-summer-for-womens-cricket.html
 * Daily Mail example: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2385246/Friends-Life-t20-Mitchell-McClenaghan-Lancashire-target-Finals-Day-beating-holders-Hampshire.html
 * The Mirror example: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/hampshire-players-show-royals-style-1921220
 * The Times example: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cricket/article3829138.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2013_07_29
 * The Express example: http://www.express.co.uk/sport/cricket/423316/Stuart-Broad-in-attack-mode-for-fifth-Ashes-Test
 * The Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/twenty20-michael-carberry-set-for-international-debut-against-australia-8775145.html
 * The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/aug/15/investing-debentures-good-ide — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.39.129.105 (talk) 11:04, 23 August 2013 (UTC)


 * In the same way, most of those sources probably refer to the City of Manchester Stadium as the Etihad Stadium. The Wikipedia convention remains the same - the reason the Emirates is an exception is because that stadium has never had another, more generic, name - it was named the Emirates before it was built.  W a g g e r s  TALK  19:40, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Rename - The Ageas Bowl
I am contacting you from Hampshire Cricket at The Ageas Bowl regarding the move of the page originally called 'Rose Bowl (cricket ground).

I see from previous comments that there have been a number of points both for and against the change of page name and we believe that several factors have changed since the posting of these to make the change more than credible.

Our ground-naming sponsorship deal with Ageas is in fact a 10 year deal and that will be in-place until at least 2022 with the venue holding that name for this duration and most likely further than this.

The ground is also now known widely and completely known as The Ageas Bowl with the name established both locally and nationally as the home of Hampshire Cricket - local and national media widely recognise the venue as this.

Since the creation and editing of the page, our logo's and imagery have also altered and we are keen to have these used on both The Ageas Bowl page in reference and 'Hampshire County Cricket Club'. This will help to keep both as accurate and factually correct as possible and help with linking to all content associated with the stadium.

I hope that it can be agreed that the initial alteration of the page is a reasonable request with the proposed changes to the Hampshire County Cricket Club page also considered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wb1007 (talk • contribs) 16:28, 4 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Wb1007 and welcome to Wikipedia. Our policy for naming articles can be found at WP:NAME; the most important point to grasp is that the official name, length of sponsorship deal, logo, imagery are completely irrelevant; all that really matters is to establish what the most commonly-used name is.
 * By way of example, the Elizabeth Tower in Westminster was given that name in 2012 as part of the Jubilee celebrations but our article on that subject stubbornly remains Big Ben because, despite there now being a different official name which received much publicity at the time, the latter is far more commonly used for the tower (even though the name actually refers to the bell).
 * That said, having previously opposed renaming of this article on the basis that "Rose Bowl" was more commonly used in reference to the venue - and I still believe I was correct to do so at the time - I do accept that common names evolve over time and certainly in my own experience I'm beginning to hear "Ageas Bowl" used more frequently in common parlance.
 * Nevertheless, having established a consensus on this talk page against such a move, we now should check whether that consensus has changed with a Requested Move, which I shall begin below. An anonymous user recently attempted such a move against consensus and in so doing broke links and removed references to the "Rose Bowl" name - which is still a valid alternative name that is in common use, albeit not as common as it used to be.
 * You should be aware that should the venue's official name change again, the article's name should not automatically follow suit, for reasons I have hopefully made clear. WaggersTALK  09:31, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 9 December 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No move. Cúchullain t/ c 18:37, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Rose Bowl (cricket ground) → Ageas Bowl – Official name has now gained significant traction in local/common parlance and is arguably now more commonly used than "Rose Bowl". <b style="color:#98F">W</b><b style="color:#97E">a</b><b style="color:#86D">g</b><b style="color:#75C">ge</b><b style="color:#83C">r</b><b  style="color:#728">s</b><small  style="color:#080">TALK  09:31, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Support as nominator. Having previously opposed such a move, I now believe "Ageas Bowl" to be the more commonly used name. Of course this is purely based on personal experience and establishing a robust evidence base either way could be difficult. <b style="color:#98F">W</b><b style="color:#97E">a</b><b style="color:#86D">g</b><b style="color:#75C">ge</b><b style="color:#83C">r</b><b  style="color:#728">s</b><small  style="color:#080">TALK  09:35, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Simply a sponsor name. Much like these grounds have been/are sponsor names: Brit Oval (The Oval), Ford County Cricket Ground (County Ground, Chelmsford), Emirates Durham International Cricket Ground (Riverside Ground), The Royal and Sun Alliance County Ground (County Ground, Bristol). All are officially known on authoritative sites by their original names, and over time deals expire and original names stay the same. The article should remain at Rose Bowl and have Ageas Bowl as a redirect. PinchHittingLeggy (talk) 17:43, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose per AA and the above RM on the same thing.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 18:43, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Unless the sponsored name is the original name of the ground and the only one it has been known by (cf Arsenal's Emirates Stadium for example), I feel we ought to stick with the non-sponsored title and use redirects to point readers to the article. Sponsorship is epheremal and even the longest naming deals can change quickly, if the deal has an opt-out clause or the sponsoring company gets taken over. The Oval for example has been sponsored at least by Foster's, Kia and Brit and it would make no sense to keep moving the article in line with commercial usage. It's interesting that the nominator has changed their view over time - as they say, providing hard evidence either way may be difficult, particularly given that sources from the county, the sponsor and cricket organisations will inevitably go with the sponsored title. --Bcp67 (talk) 12:40, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bcp67 - to be honest I have no strong view one way or the other. My change of mind is really based on WP:COMMONNAME, which is the only criterion supported by Wikipedia policy; all the other arguments I've seen on this topic seem to be implying the policy is one of WP:OFFICIALNAME, WP:ORIGINALNAME or WP:GENERICNAME when actually none of those things should be considered if we are to apply the policy correctly. <b style="color:#98F">W</b><b style="color:#97E">a</b><b style="color:#86D">g</b><b style="color:#75C">ge</b><b style="color:#83C">r</b><b  style="color:#728">s</b><small  style="color:#080">TALK  15:20, 15 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 11 July 2018
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 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 08:36, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Rose Bowl (cricket ground) → The Ageas Bowl – I see that there have been previous requests for this page to be renamed the Ageas Bowl and it feels like now is a good time to review this decision.

The page is now in all instances known as The Ageas Bowl in all local and national press and therefore it would make sense for this page to change accordingly as I believe that this is confusing for users.

A news search on search engines as an example only brings up results relating to The Rose Bowl stadium in the USA in fact I was unable to find any relevant listings that related to the Ageas Bowl venue in Hampshire. The Ageas Bowl as a comparison is what all publications including national press such as the BBC use.

Example media:
 * BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/44438072
 * Sky Sports - http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12140/11250629/hampshire-and-glamorgan-arenas-to-host-new-t20-franchise-competition
 * The Guardian - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2018/jun/20/county-cricket-surrey-somerset-essex-notts-live
 * Daily Telegraph - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/06/25/england-give-jos-buttler-long-term-opener-role-twenty20s-ipl/
 * The Times - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ageas-bowl-to-host-ashes-test-in-2023-fp5m9rmt6
 * Independent - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/trent-bridge-misses-out-ecb-confirms-2023-ashes-venues-a8211936.html
 * The Daily Mail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5392477/Ageas-Bowl-misses-2023-Ashes-Test.html
 * The Express - https://www.express.co.uk/sport/cricket/951901/County-Championship-fixtures-Essex-Yorkshire-cricket
 * The Sun - https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/6174482/peter-siddle-woolly-hat-cricket-county-championship/
 * Daily Mirror - https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-vs-south-africa-live-10660263

You will see that the Ageas Bowl is different to examples cited earlier such as The Oval and Old Trafford which are still known as the original names and this is represented in the articles above. Steve at Adido (talk) 10:18, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * (Reluctant) support. I want to be really clear on this: I don't like the name Ageas Bowl. I don't like the idea of selling "naming rights" in general. I think "Rose Bowl" is a much better, much nicer name for the venue. I don't want the article to move, because I prefer the existing name. BUT none of that matters; our policy is clear, and whether we like it or not I think it's easily demonstrated that "Ageas Bowl" is by far the more commonly used name in reliable sources. This is not one of those cases where the official name has changed and failed to catch on. So I don't support the move because it's what I want to happen - the opposite is true; I support the move because it's the right thing to do according to our policy on naming articles. <b style="color:#98F">W</b><b style="color:#97E">a</b><b style="color:#86D">g</b><b style="color:#75C">ge</b><b style="color:#83C">r</b><b  style="color:#728">s</b><small  style="color:#080">TALK  13:05, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose yes it's got a sponsor deal 2012-2022, but so what. Long term in an encyclopedia this is the same old Rose Bowl. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:42, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose per the other two RM discussions, above.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 16:23, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose per the previous RM discussions and the well-established consensus not to use sponsored names for cricket grounds. Also, if people did want to move, Ageas Bowl should be the target, not The Ageas Bowl. <b style="color:#CCCC00">Joseph</b><b style="color:#00FF00">2302</b> (talk) 17:26, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose per previous RM discussions and also since there is chance of getting the name changed as sponsorship (as per discussion) is only until 2021-22. We don't change any cricket multi-national series or T20 league names based on their sponsorship though they have 10-year deals. Sagavaj (talk) 17:30, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose The commercial media organisations can do what they like in the area of supporting potential financial supporters. We are a non-commercial organisation trying to be a world class encyclopaedia. We should not get into the advertising business, and just stick to the permanent name. HiLo48 (talk) 22:58, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose – Always better to use an original, unsponsored name where one exists. This is the standard format for sports venues, certainly those in the UK. Sponsored names may be more common in the short term but are inherently unstable and transient, likely to change every few years. Jellyman (talk) 18:01, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Will always be officially known as the Rose Bowl. Nobody here in Hampshire calls it Ageas Bowl! PinchHittingLeggy (talk) 22:22, 16 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Southampton
Despite being very definitely not in Southampton, often cricket matches played at the Rose Bowl are referred to in the media as happening "in Southampton". I'm wondering if we need to mention that in the article, and reference the fact that it's outside the city boundaries (not even "on the outskirts" as several sources vaguely claim). Using tools like https://www.measureitmap.com/ it's easy to measure the distance from the border - around 0.7km at the very closest - but a reliable reference that says the ground is X distance away from the Southampton border would be preferable. <b style="color:#98F">W</b><b style="color:#97E">a</b><b style="color:#86D">g</b><b style="color:#75C">ge</b><b style="color:#83C">r</b><b  style="color:#728">s</b><small  style="color:#080">TALK  12:59, 6 August 2021 (UTC)