Talk:Rose La Touche

Inconsistencies
Wikipedia has some inconsistencies regarding Rose la Touche. The article on Effie Gray states that Rose was engaged to John Ruskin, but the engagement was broken due to Effie's advice to Rose's mother. But this article and the article on John Ruskin says that they were never engaged. The article on Rose says she was 10, not 9, when she met John Ruskin. I suspect there are more conflicting accounts. I don't know which of these are correct.--Wonderbreadwop 14:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Some sources say she was 10, some say she was 9. It depends whether they met before or after her birthday. As for whether they were engaged, that depends on how you define engaged - they had a sort of "understanding", but technically they were not, since she never actually said yes. Paul B 14:41, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Having checked some sources the evidence is that she was in fact 10 when they met, but that Ruskin himself says she was 9. Paul B 15:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The account of the marriage proposal conflicts with the account under the entry for Effie Gray. That entry states that Ruskin's proposal was thwarted by Gray and that the frustration he felt contributed to his mental incapacitation. This article does not mention Gray's role, assigns a different reason for the failed proposal, and Ruskin's mental decline is attributed to a different cause.Star-lists 01:16, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * There is no contradiction. We can't say for certain what caused Ruskin's mental decline. The other article says Effie's intervention "probably" had an effect. Effie's letter confirmed Rose's parents' opposition to the marriage, hence the concern described here. As this article also states, Rose did not need their approval after she was 21. Her rejection of Ruskin then was on religious grounds - or at least she said it was. Paul B 01:24, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Some medical authorities have suggested that Ruskin's illness was an organic encephalopathy with psychiatric manifestations. https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/131/9/2520/281284?login=false Pelarmian (talk) 10:05, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

The Passion of John Ruskin (movie)
I've deleted this reference--according to the page on imdb that it linked to, Neve Campbell was cast in the role of Effie, not as Rose. I haven't seen the movie (it doesn't seem to be available on DVD), but I strongly suspect that its entire 14 minutes were devoted to the Ruskin/Effie marriage and probably doesn't even mention Rose. If someone has seen this and can verify or challenge this speculation, please do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Camille Desmoulins (talk • contribs) 03:58, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, I see that Paul Barlow has reinserted the reference, and I gather that he's seen the film. This would suggest that imdb is in error (not terribly unlikely), and I've come across a few websites that credit Neve Campbell as Rose.

On the other hand, in a footnote to her book _Performing the Victorian_, Sharon Aronofsky Weltman claims that Neve Campbell DID play Effie's part, and that the film mainly focused on the pubic hair legend.

So I'm still confused--did Campbell actually play both parts? And if much of the film is concerned with Ruskin's marriage to Effie (and the lack of consummation), then how much of it is about Rose at all? Or is Weltman describing a different movie?

If Paul or someone else who's seen the film can help dispel my confusion, I'd greatly appreciate it!

(and I still want to see the film, if only to see one of the Kids in the Hall performing as John Ruskin!)

Camille Desmoulins (talk) 04:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Precious/Precocius
I think this is a problem arising from the fact that the word "precious" is not used in the way intended very often these days - i.e. delicate, or fragile. I know of no evidence that Rose was especially precocius (advanced for her age), but there is a great deal that she was precious. Of course the word can be changed to a more common modern usage. Paul B (talk) 20:50, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Well I think, on reflection, that what I just wrote is baloney. Paul B (talk) 20:59, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Later life
This article talks a lot about the relationship with Ruskin, but isn't clear whether that continued up to her death. What are the last known letters between the two, for instance ? What did Rose do once she reached adulthood ? -- Beardo (talk) 22:29, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Maria la Touche correspondence with Effie Millais
I have amended the text which said that Rose's parents refused Ruskin's offer of marriage after being warned by Effie Millais. Tim Hilton makes it clear that the correspondence with Effie was in 1868, some time after Ruskin's proposal. Pelarmian (talk) 09:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)