Talk:Rosecroft (San Diego)

Name of the property
Someone recently changed the name in the lead sentence to "Rosecroft national historic place". I changed it back to Rosecroft, which does appear to be the way the NRHP has it listed. --MelanieN (talk) 14:58, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Owner's name
A user called Rosecroft2007 has changed the name of the owner from Scott and Mary Clifton to Scott Clifton, asserting personal knowledge of a change in the ownership situation. The only independent reliable source we have for the owner's name is the National Register nomination form, which lists the owners as Scott and Mary Clifton (that's why I changed it back the first time it was changed). If that is no longer correct, but we don't have an independent reliable source for the change, I propose that we simply omit the name of the owner from the article. The name isn't essential anyhow, and including it here could be seen as an invasion of privacy. However, rather than make the change, I will invite User:Rosecroft2007 to come here and discuss the matter. --MelanieN (talk) 14:47, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry Melanie - didn't notice you had started this section before I edited the article to re-add "Scott and Mary" per the sources, and remove "current owner". It's not a privacy issue as the Cliftons were widely publicized as the owners, but I agree the article does not need to have the name of the owner(s). We can wait for Rosecroft2007, or feel free to remove yourself. Dohn joe (talk) 16:05, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have removed the name of the owner, pending a decision here. --MelanieN (talk) 16:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Marion
A new user recently added a bunch of information to the article about Alfred's wife Marion. I like the information and think it adds value to the article, but it is completely unsourced. Rather than deleting it or flagging it as "citation needed", I posted a note at the user's talk page. Let's wait a bit and see what they come up with before pouncing all over this info for being unsourced. --MelanieN (talk) 14:51, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Separate article?
I did some more research and added some more links about the Robinsons to the article. I also found that the American Begonia Society presents an Alfred D. Robinson medal every year for new begonia varieties, although I didn't add that to this article. That's further recognition for the individual (as opposed to the property). What would others think about splitting off Alfred and Marion into a separate article? I know we discussed this possibility before but didn't do it. I think we now have so much information about them that they are kind of overbalancing this article, which is supposed to be about the place. Alfred D. Robinson is currently a redirect to this article; it could be expanded into a full article. Comments? --MelanieN (talk) 17:26, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you're right on, Melanie. I was just looking at the expanded article and thought about putting in a subheading for the Robinsons, and thought that the info on them was starting to dominate the article. I think a spinoff would be fine. Do you think just one, on Alfred, or two, with a separate one on Marion? Dohn joe (talk) 18:31, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd be inclined to title the article after Alfred (using the existing redirect page), but make the article be about both of them, and make her name a redirect to the page. I handled it that way in a similar situation with Fred Urquhart, whose wife Norah Urquhart was his equal partner in their research and in the honors they received. On the other hand, husband-and-wife business partners Xochi Birch and Michael Birch have separate articles (and I fought to keep them that way). But IMO the situation with the Robinsons is more like the Urquharts, where their stories overlap so thoroughly that separate articles would mostly be redundant. --MelanieN (talk) 19:27, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Further comment: I realize this approach could be considered kind of sexist and diminishing the importance of the woman. On the other hand, Marion and Norah were women of their time; even though they were important and participated in accomplishments as a couple, they stood a step back when it came to publicity and credit. As a result we can find many sources about the husband and some about the couple, but very little sourcing about the woman alone. It's different with a modern couple like Michael and Xochi, where they each have independent coverage. Whether we like it or not, here at Wikipedia we are all about sourcing. I'd still like to find some better sourcing for the additional material about Marion. Hopefully User:Oor Rab will be of some help there. --MelanieN (talk) 20:06, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. Here is some info about her father and grandfather: --MelanieN (talk) 20:22, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I concur with Melanie. Dohn joe (talk) 17:52, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You want to write it? I won't have time over the next few weeks. --MelanieN (talk) 23:41, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There, I finally got around to writing the Robinson article. Now to trim this one. --MelanieN (talk) 00:43, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Well done as always, Melanie. Sorry I dropped the ball on this one.... Dohn joe (talk) 02:17, 28 November 2013 (UTC)