Talk:Rosenstiel School of Marine, Atmospheric, and Earth Science/GA3

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: AIR corn (talk) 07:07, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for reviewing the article. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 04:52, 10 April 2011 (UTC)


 * No problem. I feel it needs quite a bit of work though, but as you are an active editor and it has improved since the last time it was nominated (not counting the review stopped for alleged copy-violations) I think we can get it up to standard. The big bug bear for me here is the prose. The flow isn't great through some parts and many of the sentences could be written a lot more clearly and concisely. A large part of the problem is that there are too many compound sentences and some information is presented without being tied to the previous sentences. I have only done one read through and still wish to spot check a few sources, but this should give you something to work through. I will be happy to answer any questions or concede on any of the points if you provide a convincing explanation. RegardsAIR corn (talk) 08:42, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

GA first review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
 * DAB links Dade County and sea grape. Dead reflinks at 25, 13, 26, 27, 47 (Most seem to be to the Miami University)


 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A (prose):
 * Master's, doctorates as well as Master of Professional Science degree is also awarded to RSMAS students by the UM Graduate School. Is this different to a standard Master's degree? If not maybe change to "including a Master of" and put it in brackets/commas or something similar next to Master's.
 * The Board of Trustees of the University of Miami created the Marine Laboratory of the University in 1943. Created doesn't seem right. Maybe established? Would also suggest changing "the Marine Laboratory" to "a Marine Laboratory" as it is the first time it is mentioned and "of the University" to "for the University".
 * Its three objectives are teaching, basic research, and applied marine research. The laboratory extends its activity into subjects specific for the tropical environment. I feel it should be past tense as the name, location and other aspects have since changed. Also the last sentence could be a lot more concise.
 * In 1953, the current location of the School's classrooms and laboratories were built on Virginia Key. This reads like the "current location" was built. I am assuming the laboratory had classrooms and laboratories already so it might pay to specify new classrooms/laboratories.
 * Up until 2008, RSMAS was solely a graduate school within the University of Miami, while it jointly administrated an undergraduate program with UM's College of Arts and Sciences; as of 2008, the Rosenstiel School has taken over administrative responsibilities for the undergraduate program, granting Bachelor of Science in Marine and Atmospheric Science (BSMAS) and Bachelor of Arts in Marine Affairs (BAMA) baccalaureate degree. Would suggest using a fullstop inplace of the semi colon and start the second sentence "In 2008".
 * The school bought Research vessels and built more facilities during further years to bear research projects. What does bear research projects mean?
 * Wikilink Pew Charitable Trusts?
 * In 2008, RSMAS took over administrative functions of the University of Miami's undergraduate Marine Science, Marine Affairs, and Meteorology programs, which had previously been jointly administrated by both RSMAS and Miami's College of Arts & Sciences since 1977. This would benefit from being broken up. It also jumps from 2008 back to 1977 which breaks the flow.
 * In 1969, the institution was made into an independent school and named after Lewis and Dorothy H. Rosenstiel after a major contribution from the Rosenstiel's foundation (the Rosenstiels' fortune was made in liquor distilling) to support progress in atmospheric and marine sciences. The word after is repeated within a short space in this sentence. Is the H. needed? I would consider putting the full name of the institute near where it
 * Academics are people who work at a university. A better section header should probably be used here.
 * True. But heading suggested at WP:UNIGUIDE. Racepacket (talk) 04:41, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * So it does. I will have a read through that link in more detail soon. AIR corn (talk) 09:35, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * All graduate work at RSMAS is "under the direction of" the Dean of the University of Miami's Graduate School. Why is under the direction of in quotation marks? Is it not really under his direction?
 * It reflect the terminology to describe the fact that the Graduate school is accredited to award PhDs, but the RSMAS faculty actually runs these programs and reports to the RSMAS Dean. This is true of most academic departments in most American research universities. Racepacket (talk) 04:41, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. I wonder if it could be explained better for us non-Americans. AIR corn (talk) 09:35, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * How about: "All graduate degrees at RSMAS are technically awarded by the University of Miami's Graduate School, which does not have a separate faculty."
 * I liked your wording above better. AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * ''Applied Marine Physics (fluid dynamics, remote sensing, waves) There is a wikilink (redirect at least) for Marine Physics which would be better than wikilinking Physics
 * Will set up a redirect. Racepacket (talk) 04:41, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry wasn't clear. There already exists a redirect, I would wikilink to that as it may turn into an article in the future. AIR corn (talk) 09:35, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I just found the redirect for Marine physics. Racepacket (talk) 13:31, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Designed after the school's specifications, the catamaran was put on water in 2000. "after" and "put on water" don't sound right?
 * The collection consists of 60,000 lots out of which 38,900 are cataloged and identified species Lots? Would specimens be better?
 * I am afraid a "lot" is a batch (or group) of specimens. It is the unit of measure offered by the sources.
 * Could we use groups? AIR corn (talk) 09:35, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * "Lot" is a term of art used by the source. Racepacket (talk) 19:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * If lot has to be used it would be better to define it as "specimen lots" to make it clearer. AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Since 2005, RSMAS has conducted its Underwater Photography Contest which is open to photographers who earn no more than 20 percent of their income from photography. Comma before which
 * The Virginia Key 18-acre (73,000 m2) campus includes classroom facilities, laboratories, a dock, and a student center called the F. G. Walton Smith Commons which holds a cafeteria and a bar that was rated as one of Miami's best secrets by the Miami New Times in 2008. Would split into two sentences
 * The Virginia Key campus is part of a 65-acre (260,000 m2) marine research and education park that includes two NOAA research laboratories, the MAST Academy magnet school,[35] and the Miami Seaquarium Spell out NOAA and MAST
 * Since 1977, the Cooperative Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Studies (CIMAS), a scientific partnership between UM and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has been studying climate change, air-sea interactions and coastal ecology NOAH is mentioned and wikilinked earlier
 * RSMAS has focused significant resources to studying the Gulf oil spill and its long term environmental effect Gulf oil spill already wikilinked
 * The Corporación Andina de Fomento has awarded a grant to RSMAS to conduct a feasibility study for a new experimental water tunnel facility located in Panama. Wikilink Corporación Andina de Fomento
 * B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
 * 1) Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. References to sources:
 * In the info box it says one of it's former names is University of Miami. This seems a stretch as it is a school within UM. Is there a better category within the box to put University of Miami under?
 * Former name was "University of Miami Marine Lab" - should I shorten it to UM Marine Lab?
 * That would be better. AIR corn (talk) 09:35, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I have made the change, but there was only one former name that happened to be listed on two lines due to its length. Racepacket (talk) 12:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The relationship lasted for 12 years until the state of Florida built its own lab in St. Petersburg Was it built by the state or the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. To follow from the previous sentence I think it would be better to specify the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, unless of course it was not built for them.
 * It was built for them through funds appropriated by the State Legislature. Racepacket (talk) 04:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * How about "until the state of Florida built them a lab" or something similar AIR corn (talk) 09:35, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * fine. Racepacket (talk) 19:14, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Recently, RSMAS started a one-year Master of Professional Science degree program. If this is important enough to mention it probably needs some more information.
 * How about adding to Academics: The school offers a Masters of Professional Science for students planning non-research careers in business, government, or non-profit organizations. Racepacket (talk) 12:57, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I was hoping for more information as to why this degree program deserves to get special mention. Is it the only one in the country? AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * RSMAS also has the research programs of The Oceans and Human Health Center, the National Resource for Aplysia, the National Center for Coral Reef Research, the Center for Southeastern Tropical Advanced Remote Sensing (CSTARS), and the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences Does this mean that all these institutes do their research at RSMAS? Should have a citation if that is the case. Could probably be reworded better. Should be under the Research heading.
 * Wording fixed. Racepacket (talk) 12:57, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It is equipped with a special sea water flow system that can take samples and perform chemical analysis on board This could be expanded and explained better.
 * How about: It is equipped with a special sea water flow system that can take samples. The on-board lab can perform chemical analysis of those water samples. Racepacket (talk) 12:57, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Better, before it read like the sea water flow system does the analysis.AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Have you cleared this change, so that it can be posted into the article? Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 12:06, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The National Research Council ranked graduate research program based on 2008 data, and RSMAS ranked 11th to 40th among Oceanography, Atmospheric Sciences, and Meteorology Rankings. The RSMAS entering graduate students' Average Quantitative GRE score was 681. Not sure what this is trying to say (ranked "the" graduate research program maybe). 11th to 40th is quite a range, can we be more specific. Wikilink United States National Research Council. Spell out and wikilink Graduate Record Examination. - see fix. According to the NRC source, the 5th percentile ranking was 11 and the 95th percentile ranking was 40, so it reported "11-40" as the range of rankings assigned by the jury of exports that were surveyed. Racepacket (talk) 19:33, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Jeez, that makes it complicated to chose the right program. It could probably use an expansion to explain how those rankings come about. To me they are so wide as to be almost meaningless. The source has a link to a page that explains the rankings. Is there more information that can be added about the schools ratings/rankings? AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that it is complex, but it is reported as "11-40". In fields where there is a consensus as to what is the top school, the band is much smaller. What do you suggest? Racepacket (talk) 12:06, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The Rosenstiel School's Center for Southeastern Tropical Advanced Remote Sensing (CSTARS) and Richmond Satellite Operations Center (RSOC) have research facilities located on what was named the Richmond Campus. What is it named now?
 * Prior to the acquisition, it was not called the Richmond Campus. It is called the Richmond Campus now. Fixed Racepacket (talk) 19:14, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The Rosenstiel School's research invertebrate museum houses one of the world's most extensive collections of invertebrate tropical marine life with 400,000 specimens. In the previous section it mentions the museum has 60 000 lots?
 * I think that "lot" is a term of art, One lot has an average of less than 10 specimens. Racepacket (talk) 19:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The Richmond Campus' CSTARS provides RSMAS with a near-real-time satellite downlink. A downlink of what?
 * Weather (atmospheric) satellite data. So if you want to follow a hurricane, you can tap into the data and draw weather maps with very little time delay from real time. Racepacket (talk) 19:33, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * How about: "a near-real-time satellite downlink of weather data." Racepacket (talk) 01:47, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Much better AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Again, have you cleared that change to be posted into article space, or do I have to go to my volunteer to check it? Racepacket (talk) 12:06, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Research projects at RSMAS are in the domain of atmospheric and marine sciences, with interdisciplinary approaches: Is this an exhaustive list of all the research projects?
 * No. How can we flag this? Racepacket (talk) 19:14, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I personally don't think a list should be used unless it includes all the options. It can get tricky deciding which to keep unless you put a qualifier on it. However I would be weary of adding more to the list unless it is movwd to the end of the section. Prose would be best. If the list is kept it should indicate that this is a sample of research projects.AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * May I please change the introduction to the list to read: "Research projects at RSMAS are in the domain of atmospheric and marine sciences and include:"? Racepacket (talk) 12:06, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
 * It is the only subtropical applied and basic marine and atmospheric research institute in the continental United States. Cited to a reference desk?
 * I feel a statement like that needs more than a trivial mention in a links page. Found this which has some other information that might be useful. AIR corn  (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see a problem. The UnderwaterTimes.com. website has a page entitled "Reference Desk" where a number of authoritative reference sources are listed, and UnderwaterTimes describes RSMAS as "The only subtropical applied and basic marine and atmospheric research institute in the continental United States." Racepacket (talk) 12:30, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Added ref. Racepacket (talk) 12:43, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Since 1951, RSMAS has published the Bulletin of Marine Science a scientific journal which publishes research papers in marine biology, biological oceanography, fisheries, marine policy, applied marine physics, marine geology and geophysics, marine and atmospheric chemistry, meteorology, and physical oceanography Copy paste from . Would be better without the technical list anyway.
 * C. No original research:
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * In 1947, the Florida State Legislature, prompted by the Dade County delegation, supported the Marine Laboratory as an agency of the State Board of Conservation, which had no marine research facility and little budget of its own. I feel this needs more information. What is the Dade County delegation and why did they support this. Also if it, as I assume it did, become an agency it should probably say that. At the moment the sentence just specifies their support.
 * The Dade County delegation is the set of state legislators representing Dale County. They did it to support a local institution. It was a loose relationship for funding. Racepacket (talk) 05:03, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Too much information in one sentence (it has four commas). Would split the sentence. Suggestion: "A delegation from Dade County prompted the Florida State Legislature to support the development of a Marine Laboratory in 1947. It was made? an agency of the State Board of Conservation, which had no marine research facility and little budget of its own at the time."
 * RSMAS also offers a joint program with the UM Law School which awards its students both a JD degree and a Master of Arts in Marine Affairs and Policy. Whats JD?
 * Juris Doctor. Linked. Racepacket (talk) 05:03, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Would expand too AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * A few things are named after Walton Smith, yet he is not mentioned in the history. Who is he?
 * My recommendation addition to the history fixes this problem as well. Racepacket (talk) 02:16, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * B. Focused:
 * This seems fine
 * 1) Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:

Other
These are a few other suggestions that I noted when reviewing. They are not needed to pass GA review, but could benefit the article.
 * It is located on a 16 acre (65,000 m²) campus on Virginia Key in Miami, Florida, USA. Does USA need to be added.
 * Prior comments complained that the nation should be indetified somewhere out of deference to international readers. Racepacket (talk) 15:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really an issue. It just seemed a bit unnecessary to me. AIR corn (talk) 22:23, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Reference 3 reads "Message from the Dean Graduate School  University of Miami". Are the  included for a reason?
 * The other editor insists that the title parameter of the cite web must replicate the title HTML tag on the web page, which features vertical bars. So I changed it to ! Racepacket (talk) 15:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think that is policy, but I could be wrong. It looks better now anyway. AIR corn (talk) 22:23, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You are correct. This is an accommodation to Ryulong. Racepacket (talk) 20:02, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Would be interested to know more about the establishment of the Marine Laboratory. Who wanted it (currently it just says the Board of Directors), why etc and if in fact any notable researchers joined.
 * How about: "In 1940, UM President Bowman Ashe recruited F.G. Walton Smith, a young British marine biologist who was working in the Bahamas. Smith joined the Department of Zoology, and started to organize a marine laboratory.
 * Looks good.AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Do I have your clearance to post it into the article? Racepacket (talk) 12:17, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I believe I have addressed all of your concerns. Please give me your reactions. Racepacket (talk) 12:30, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * However, in 2008 the program relocated to SUNY at Stony Brook Would consider combining this with the previous sentence.
 * If a institute or degree is only used once it dos not need to be abbreviated. - True, but some readers may recognize the abbreviation rather than the formal degree name. Racepacket (talk) 20:05, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Some refs say University of Miami others Univ. of Miami. Would be good to standardise.
 * Sweet, I have left some responses. I have noticed that some of the information is quite fragmented. The Museum is mentioned in two different sections and so is information about the quality of the school. There might be others. AIR corn (talk) 12:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your continued comments. I have combined the museum sentences in one place. Although the last paragraph of the "Research" section does reflect on the quality of the school, it is focusing on peer-reviewed research grants and research fellowships. Racepacket (talk) 12:17, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I have made the changes you cleared in the article. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 11:22, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

2nd Read through
I started my second read through and came upon thise under history: ''Smith joined the Department of Zoology, and organized a marine laboratory. The Board of Trustees of the University of Miami established a Marine Laboratory for the University in 1943. .....A delegation from Dade County prompted the Florida State Legislature to support the development of a Marine Laboratory in 1947.'' There are three sentences which now talk about oraganising/establishing/supporting a Marine laboratory in at least two different years over two paragraphs. I know I made and approved suggestions for rewording sentences but they have to make sense in the context of the whole section and indeed the article. This needs to be fixed and I would suggest you have a thorough read through of the article again to see if any other similar problems exist before I continue. AIR corn (talk) 01:11, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There are separate events in the chronology:

I will check for other problems. Racepacket (talk) 21:13, 21 April 2011 (UTC) I have made one clarification to the sentence about the state lab, but I did not see anything else that would confuse the reader. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 21:22, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 1940 Smith is hired as a Zoology professor - he was hired with the expectation that he would help lead a future Marine Lab.
 * 1943 a "Marine Laboratory" is officially set up as a part of the University
 * 1947 a state funded unit of the Board of Conservation supplements the existing UM Marine Laboratory, but the state lab is moved to a different city in 1959 - with a resulting loss of state funds to the Miami effort.


 * I think we are about there. I hope you don't mind, but took the liberty of making a few changes myself as I read through. Most are minor and relate to what we talked about here, but if you can check them to make sure I haven't introduced any factual errors and they fit in with what you are trying to say. I have a few very minor points below. AIR corn (talk) 12:16, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * In 1953, the School's classrooms and laboratories were built at Virginia Key. If there were classes somewhere else already relocated might work better?


 * Laboratories at Virginia Key are equipped with state-of-the-art instruments including a salt-water wave tank, the five-tank Conditioning and Spawning Systems, multi-tank Aplysia Culture Laboratory, Controlled Corals Climate Tanks, and DNA analysis equipment. I saw one of the previous reviews mentioned that it sounded like a brochure. I did not get a strong impression of that from my read through so I put that down to previous improvements. However the "state-of-the-art" does sound a bit brochurish here.


 * The dead links are still present for me. You can check them here
 * I fixed the dead link. I propose to add the following text at the end of the first full paragraph of the history section:"Initially, the Marine Lab was located in a private boathouse on an estate on Belle Isle in Miami Beach, Florida. In 1945, when the boathouse became structurally unsafe, the lab moved to a converted apartment building in Coral Gables, Florida near the main campus." Racepacket (talk) 16:41, 27 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I noticed no paraphrasing problems so feel free to insert it. I still cannot access eight of the links (the Rosenstiel Annual Report, The Rosenstiel School - Oil Spill, F.G. Walton Smith vessel brochure, Rosenstiel School Facilities, Graduate Class Statistics: 2008, RSMAS brochure, 2008 Rosenstiel Annual Report, and F. G. Walton Smith). If they can be fixed that would be great, otherwise I will have to seek advice on whether this can be a good article with link rot (WP:GACN seems to suggest it can). Other than that and my above two points I think it is ready. Regards AIR corn  (talk) 08:04, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops, I see they are referenced in the wayback machine. AIR corn (talk) 08:09, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Last point (relates to the one above). The history talks about laboratories being built and then says "in 1953, the School's classrooms and laboratories were built at Virginia Key." I would add "new" or something else to tie it in with the other laboratories e.g "in 1953, the School built new classrooms and laboratories at Virginia Key."
 * I am not sure that I fully understand your concern. First, prior to around 1950, Virginia Key was undeveloped until a causeway was built to the island allowing car access. So, there was nothing on the site before 1953.  Further, I am not sure that I would dignify the pre-1953 facilities as "laboratories" - it was a converted apartment building with some aquarium tanks in some of the rooms.  I believe that pre-1953, most classes were conducted in various classrooms on the main Coral Gables campus.  Again, at this time, the graduate programs were just beginning.  Perhaps we are running the risk of giving too much importance to the interim facilities that predate 1953.  I welcome your advice. Racepacket (talk) 13:26, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you have done a good job explaining the early laboratories. This sentence just needs something extra to tie in with the preceding information better. Maybe the original wording which specified the "current location" could be adapted. "In 1953, classrooms and laboratories were built at the Schools current Virginia Key location."

Units of measure Hope that helps Lightmouse (talk) 15:50, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It says "a 23 mile long oil plume". A conversion into km would make it more accessible.