Talk:Roses in Portland, Oregon/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) 22:46, 1 July 2012 (UTC)


 * This article is an interesting change of pace, so I will take a look at it.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:46, 1 July 2012 (UTC)


 * WP:LEAD
 * I am a bit surprised. I either expected the city to be known for exporting volumes of roses, or for winning national/international competitions. The lead mentions neither. Hmm. Let's see what is forthcoming.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:52, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know that much about this type of plantlife, but I imagine there is a difference between greenhouse flowers and outdoor flowers. Should the LEAD make it clear that the climate makes it perfect for growing the outdoor flowers? --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:54, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I clarified it to say that the climate is favorable to growing roses outdoors. Jsayre64   (talk)  21:10, 4 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Gardens
 * Convert 20th century dollar amounts to modern day amounts. (See examples at Bobby Orr). --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Jsayre64  (talk)  21:09, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Please use the conversion template like the example so that no one has to remember to update it every year.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:44, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Jsayre64  (talk)  22:07, 4 July 2012 (UTC)


 * This article is pretty short. I find it hard to believe that many of the things that I am curious about are not in the public domain:
 * What percentage of Portland's Roses are Mme. Caroline Testout?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * What are the other leading varieties?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * How is Portland recognized outside of Portland? What do national magazines based outside of Portland say about their roses?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Do florists around the USA use "Grown in Portland" to market premium roses?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Does Portland participate in the Tournament of Roses Parade?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Do fragrance companies use Portland Rose petals for perfumes and Potpurri?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Please describe the economics of the "Rose Industry".--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

In truth, I don't know what is missing, but I am thinking that this can not be it. Of course, I may be wrong. Although I would ordinarily fail an article like this, in the spirit of the WikiProject Good articles/GAN backlog elimination drives/June-July 2012, I will put this article on hold.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Mme. Caroline Testout is a particular rose plant, not a rose variety. Jsayre64   (talk)  21:25, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't find any information about what varieties are planted in the gardens. All the sources say is the number of varieties, perhaps because there are just too many. Jsayre64   (talk)  21:30, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see, "grown in Portland" is not a common marketing slogan. Jsayre64   (talk)  21:58, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope, it doesn't look like Portland participates in the parade in Pasadena. Jsayre64   (talk)  22:25, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * By the way, what do you think about re-ordering some of the article's sections (see the bottom of the "reminders" section on the talk page)? Jsayre64   (talk)  00:30, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I imagine that a re-ordering might be helpful.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:14, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Jsayre64  (talk)  16:27, 5 July 2012 (UTC)


 * While you are rearranging, you might want to move the Mayor and test garden images left. Alternating images is a preferred thing to do. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:32, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Jsayre64   (talk)  21:31, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Do they make perfumes out of the roses? I guess so. But is this really something to include in the article? Jsayre64   (talk)  13:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Why are the economics of the rose-selling business relevant to this article? In my view, this article should cover the culture and history of Portland's roses, and the city parks and gardens dedicated to them. Jsayre64   (talk)  13:43, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I can not imagine this is not an important business to the city. Do they just grow the roses and let them die on the vines. The people who grow them must make money on them somehow. I can not believe that the sale of roses is not a large part of the city's economy.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:35, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The roses aren't cut and sold for money; they're grown in parks and gardens by the city as tourist attractions, as a means of promoting the history and culture of Portland. This is why Portland has its own rose festival and why so many businesses and places within Portland have "rose" in their names. It has much more to do with culture than with business. Jsayre64   (talk)  16:14, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Above you say there is a business. Now ,you say they are not sold for money. Even a good article on a museum talks about works that they bought and sold. You have to tell the reader what is done with the roses if they are used for business purposes, IMO. I will ask for some 2nd opinions.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:26, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well my point is that they are not used for business purposes. When I referred to "the rose-selling business," I was generalizing about how any roses are sold, in reply to your suggestion that the article explain such economics. But the bottom line is that Portland's roses are not a business. Jsayre64   (talk)  21:06, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I requested a second opinion on whether this article meets the breadth requirement of WP:WIAGA.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:33, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, sounds good. But to get a second opinion, I think you have to update the template on the talk page so it says status=2ndopinion Jsayre64   (talk)  21:51, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I apologize, but I must complete this review in time for the judges to check it for the WikiProject Good articles/GAN backlog elimination drives/June-July 2012, which finishes at the end of this month. I remain quite uncomfortable with the lack of financial content for this article. Unfortunately a 2nd opinion did not arrive in time to convince me otherwise. Thus, I am failing this article for not passing the breadth requirement at WP:WIAGA. If you want to contest this decision, you are free to open a discussion at WP:GAR.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:59, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Just because the end of a GA review backlog elimination drive is ending soon does not mean that you should be allowed to decide the fate of the article yourself after having requested a 2nd opinion about it. You said you were unsure whether the article met the GA criteria, so you asked for a 2nd opinion. Now you decide yourself that it doesn't meet the criteria? This article has no need whatsoever for information about the rose industry, and I was eagerly awaiting a third party to agree and pass the article. GA reviewers ought to put the article ahead of their contest. Indeed, I will appeal this decision. Jsayre64   (talk)  17:18, 26 July 2012 (UTC)