Talk:Roy Moore sexual misconduct allegations/Archive 2

common elements of accusers
Firstly there is the issue that the Gadsden Mall is mentioned by Miller (working as Santa's helper ~77 when 14) then Richardson (Sears in Fall of 77) and Gray (also 77) then Deason (18 in 1979) still not sure why our Deason section is before our Richardson section since 77 precedes 79.

Pizitz is also a common element in 2 stories: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/two-more-women-describe-unwanted-overtures-by-roy-moore-at-alabama-mall/2017/11/15/2a1da432-ca24-11e7-b0cf-7689a9f2d84e_story.html?utm_term=.2f3c0da10903
 * Becky Gray, who was then 22 and working in the men’s department of Pizitz.
 * Pizitz is also where Deason told The Post last week that Moore asked her out when she was 18 and working behind the jewelry counter.

So there is a 2-element overlap here in 1 store: Gray in men's department, Deason in jewelry department. Whereas Richardson, also talks about a Gadsden Mall men's department but this was the Sears men's department.

Our Gray section has this "local mall" nonsense so I'm going to add both Gadsden and Pizitz there for clarification.

Another issue is which of the accusers knew each other. https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.9dae49224b3d states " The women say they don’t know one another." but I'm not sure which women in total this was referring to, since I think we had the statements come in 2 batches.

The only connection I've come across is per http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/new_roy_moore_accuser_he_didnt.html
 * Thorp knows one of Moore's accusers, Leigh Corfman, who told The Washington Post that Moore had a sexual encounter with her when she was 14. Thorp believes Corfman's story and said she is proud of her for telling it publicly.

Aside from this I can't recall coming across any other indications of the women knowing each other. Does anyone know otherwise? ScratchMarshall (talk) 17:58, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Beverly Young (later Nelson) and Moore's future wife, Kayla Kisor, were in the same sophomore high school class. -- BullRangifer (talk) 05:01, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Maynard von Spiegelfeld
per https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/two-more-women-describe-unwanted-overtures-by-roy-moore-at-alabama-mall/2017/11/15/2a1da432-ca24-11e7-b0cf-7689a9f2d84e_story.html?utm_term=.2f3c0da10903
 * She says he lingered in her section, or else by the bathroom area, and that she became so disturbed that she complained to the Pizitz manager, Maynard von Spiegelfeld. Gray says he told her that it was “not the first time he had a complaint about him hanging out at the mall.” Von Spiegelfeld has since died, according to a relative.

I'm wondering if we could find something more informative than 'since died' like the year he died, and a clearer source than Post's "a relative". I couldn't find anything using VS as a surname or using Von as a middle name. Also searching the name 2016 and earlier doesn't turn up anything.

This not only alleges that Spiegelfeld had received a prior complaint, but http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/roy-moore-accuser-banned-mall/story?id=51195632 has Gray imply that Spiegelfeld enacted a ban:
 * “I went to my manager and talked to him about it and asked him, basically, what could be done,” Becky Gray told ABC News late Wednesday night. “Later on, he…came back through my department and told me that [Moore] had been banned from the mall.”

I'm also wondering if anyone has reported from any friends/relatives of Gray since according to her she had mentioned this prior to the WashPo article:
 * Gray told ABC News she shared her stories about Moore with co-workers and family members over the years, but didn’t come forward publicly until The Washington Post first reported earlier this month the allegations against Moore from other alleged victims. “I [have] repeated this story...many times. People who know me know what I've always said about him, and that he was not Christian, and that he was a pervert,” she said.

Has anyone reported confirmation or denial of this from sources claiming to have been friends or relatives? Something like this exists for the Corfman story for example in https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.9dae49224b3d :
 * Betsy Davis, who remains friendly with Corfman and now lives in Los Angeles, says she clearly remembers Corfman talking about seeing an older man named Roy Moore when they were teenagers. She says Corfman described an encounter in which the older man wore nothing but tight white underwear. She says she was firm with Corfman that seeing someone as old as Moore was out of bounds. “I remember talking to her and telling her it’s not a good idea,” Davis says. “Because we were so young.”

Plus Corfman's mom and some other person who was kept anon due to fear of job loss. The Sears worker had a Sears coworker support, for example. Could not find this for Gray. Would like to list associated sources to accusers wherever possible. ScratchMarshall (talk) 18:11, 19 December 2017 (UTC)


 * This is the same rapid-fire approach you pulled at Unite the Right rally, trying to remove the terrorism categories, going on and on and on about vehicle make, model, and color, and inserting the alt-right-favored "heart attack" stuff. . Slow down. Not everything that pops into your head needs it's own section, one after the other after the other. Editing a controversial should be a deliberate process, not a sprint. ValarianB (talk) 18:50, 19 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Valerian you are clearly engaged in some kind of stalking/harassment vendetta against me, I believe you should recuse yourself from objecting to anything I do from now on and allow uninvolved editors to discuss it. ScratchMarshall (talk) 20:04, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * My friend, my first involvement in this Roy Moore article was on Dec 1st, while yours was Dec 17th. If you wish to get into a discussion about stalking, I feel that that conversation will not go the way you think it will go. ValarianB (talk) 20:57, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Breitbart News heading
In the 'reactions' section there's a specific subheading for reactions from Breitbart (under 'Moore and his campaign'). Of course Breitbart is closely linked to Moore's campaign, but if there's no need for a subheading for other news reactions do we really need one for Breitbart? 65.122.128.10 (talk) 17:42, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I think you've answered your own question. Artw (talk) 18:49, 28 December 2017 (UTC)