Talk:Royal Academy of Aboa

Turku or Åbo in an English translation of "Åbo Kungliga Akademi"? (Tackling this issue as a sort of precedent for the future)
Ok, sorry, I might be wrong on this. In any case I should have read Wikipedia's practices more carefully. I based my action on this United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names, 22nd session, New York, 20-29 April 2004, Item 17 of the provisional agenda, TOPONYMIC GUIDELINES FOR MAP EDITORS AND OTHER EDITORS, FINLAND.

"4. In foreign languages, names of monolingual areas should appear in the form they have in the official language of those areas (for instance fi Iisalmi, sv Mariehamn), unless there are no other established names in the languages in question. In bilingual areas, the names in the majority language should be preferred (for instance fi Helsinki, Turku, Vaasa; sv Jakobstad, Nykarleby, Pargas, Ekenäs.)"

This also seems to be the practice adopted by the University of Helsinki in its own writings and namings regarding its history. For a more extensive history of the university (with the relevant terminology in English), see e.g. Pirkko Forsman Svensson, University of Helsinki Language Centre:

A few comments: From Wikipedia's naming conventions: "In absence of a common English name, the current local name of the city should be used. When mentioned in a historical context, if there is not a common English name for the city in that historical period and context, use the appropriate historical name, with the current local name in parentheses (if it is not the same word) the first time the city is mentioned."

Is not the name Turku as historical as the name Åbo even though the latter appears in the institution's name? Should we then talk about the city of Åbo all the way until 1892 when Finnish became an official language in Åbo (as in all of Finland)?

Giving the institution a contemporary English name "the (Royal) Academy of Åbo" seems more controversial and anachronistic as the name "the (Royal) Academy of Turku". Compare: an article about the Cathedral of Turku would be titled "Dome of Åbo" because it was originally known as Åbo (Dom)kyrka. Another valid usage to my understanding would be using the original (Swedish) name of the institution as a title in this article as seems to be the case in the article Katedralskolan i Åbo. The anachronistic English title for "Åbo Kungliga Akademi" as the "Academy of Åbo" seems the worst of the three options. Clarifer 10:15, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that Royal Academy of Åbo is a better name for this article. This is more distinctive from Åbo Akademi University . I do not like the name Royal Academy of Turku even though this is the name officially used by the University of Helsinki. -- Petri Krohn 16:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you are missing the point? Åbo Akademi University has nothing to do with the issue. You are not making an argument, you are merely stating your point of view. The question is: Why should the article have the place name Åbo in it instead of Turku. My answer is: It shouldn't because according to the above policy of the UN, the city is bilingual with Finnish - not Swedish - as the majority language and so the Finnish version should be used in foreign texts. What is your argument for "Åbo" instead of "Turku"?Clarifer 16:53, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The city is bilingual at the moment, but it hasn't always been (officially). So why should we use the current name of the city when referring to an institution which existed before that name was officially even used? - ulayiti (talk)  17:03, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * For the same reason we don't talk about primarily the Cathedral of Åbo but the Cathedral of Turku even when writing about its history. It, too, has had an official Finnish name only since 1892. Clarifer 17:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, and for the exact same reason we don't talk about either the Castle of Viborg or the Castle of Viipuri but of the Castle of Vyborg, even in contexts regarding its history. Clarifer 17:53, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Moving / renaming this article
(From wikihelp: "Normally, logged in users can do uncontroversial moves themselves using the [move] tab..."

Less controversial versions for the title would be to my understanding:
 * Åbo Kungliga Akademi (the original Swedish name of the institution)
 * the Royal Academy of Turku (a contemporary translation into English regarding a city in Finland which has a Finnish speaking majority, see the UN guideline above, wikipedia's rules about historical place names don't seem to contradict this).
 * a contemporary translation into English with the - currently - wrong place name with regard to the majority language in these kinds of articles is problematic because such a policy leads to a situation of "historical multiplicity" of the type "The construction of the Cathedral of Åbo began...Today the Cathedral of Turku is..." or "Works on the Old Student House of Helsingfors started... Even still the Studenhouse of Helsinki enjoys...".


 * It's not 'wrong', it's just Swedish. And if there are people arguing against a move, then it is controversial. - ulayiti (talk)  17:01, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * You seem to misinterpret me. A Swedish name is not wrong because it is Swedish. A Swedish place name in this context can be considered wrong because Swedish isn't the majority language in Åbo. See the UN policy above.


 * The ORIGINAL name of the institution is not Swedish Åbo Kungliga Akademi but Latin REGIA ACADEMIA ABOENSIS. It was not (officially) a Swedish language institution but rather a Latin one.The Latin adjective Aboensis derives from the Latin name of Turku, i.e. Aboa. This is, of course, based on Swedish name Åbo, but it is commonly translated as Turku in other languages, e.g. English. Therefore, The Royal Academy of Turku is the most accurate translation.128.214.205.4 15:01, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The issue here seems to be quite trivial, so could someone just move the article to Royal Academy of Turku, please? I'd do that myself but I'm a noob and don't know how kthxye. 62.142.70.124 23:03, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Disregard that, did it myself. 62.142.70.124 23:08, 14 April 2006 (UTC)