Talk:Royal Academy of Music/Archive 1

Timing a bit wacky...
I think something else may be wrong with the dates given in the article. It states that the Academy was founded in 1822. However, George Frederic Handel (1685-1759) apparently served as the Academy's director from 1720 to 1728. Unless there's more than one Academy...?

Higaran 20:24, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

REQUEST: I would like to second Higaran's comment on the timing, and would like to request that someone who knows more about this stuff (some Brit who might be privy to the RAM's history, perhaps?) write a bit about Handel's association with the RAM. I am a student who came here to research Handel's connection with the RAM for an exam, and then I read here that the RAM was founded in 1822 (in other words, long after Handel's death)!! If I felt more confident, I would edit this article myself...but I don't know if the two institutions are different and only happen to share the same name, or if they are the same institution and share an historical connection. If anyone can add a section on Handel's connection with the RAM, they would be doing the world's music history students a huge service! Allez, enfants de la patrie! Dveej 20:47, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Clarification: Handel's Royal Academy of Music: London association of noblemen, founded in 1719 for the promotion of Italian opera. No connection to the current educational institution! PeterCraik 24 October 2006 (UTC)

PR dept at work?

 * "one of the leading music institutions in the world"
 * "enjoys a prime location in central London"
 * "Academy's prestigious collections"
 * "The Academy's students, who make up a vibrant community"
 * "current principal is the noted American academic Curtis Price"
 * extensive listing of musical figures who may or may not have a significant connection to the Academy

How many of these POV points should we remove?

Cal T 23:28, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

They are quite partial, I agree. Apart from "vibrant community", they are more or less true. But I think we can hear a bit of advertising here... someone has been busy! Philip Howard 21:43, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I changed the article to reflect a more neutral viewpoint. Many words such as 'fine' and 'important' are no longer present! I also corrected some mistakes and added some other information. Hope you think it is better. Philip Howard 17:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

University ratings
(I'm posting this to all articles on UK universities as so far discussion hasn't really taken off on WikiProject Universities.)

There needs to be a broader convention about which university rankings to include in articles. Currently it seems most pages are listing primarily those that show the institution at its best (or worst in a few cases). See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities. Timrollpickering 00:14, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Eric Thiman
I am trying to assemble some information on the composer Eric Thiman. According to the Oxford Dictionary of Music, he taught at the RAM. Is this correct or not?

Fiddleback 12:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Even columns
I just evened out the columns, then Nunquam_Dormio evened them out again. Which leads me to conclude (obvious in hindsight) that the height of each column depends on the browser, fonts, resolution, etc - some items come out as one line on one machine, as two lines on another, perhaps as three lines on another.

Does anyone know of a way to set up columns so they'll come out even on any machine? Some HTML magic that lets the browser decide where to break?

For that matter, is there a way to make the list alphabetize itself?

Of course we could solve the column problem by making it one column, but that's a bit wasteful of screen area. Tualha (Talk) 12:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

World Famous, important etc
It is clear that the RAM enjoys a good reputation both nationally and internationally. Is it Renowned? Is it important? Is it a leading institution? Well, objective facts: it is the oldest conservatoire in the UK and one of the leading ones (the RAM is more significant than other conservatoires in London, Manchester, Cardiff, Glasgow etc). Also, it is internationally renowned, as shown by the articles cited (references 2, 3 and 4). I think it is not incorrect to say the RAM is “the oldest in Britain and one of the most prestigious European conservatoires and (…)”. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.49.134.23 (talk) 20:18, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I think we should reach an agreement on this. The person above has given references that reflect the international importance of the Academy. I have checked articles of similar institutions and those do reflect their international importance (although maybe it is a bit unencyclopedic). --Karljoos (talk) 14:03, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know, it seems frivolous to me. It doesn't feel much like objective encyclopedic as it does non-neutral POV. There are also plenty of such press snippets on just about all other schools in the world, yet their wiki pages don't read like a self-promoting prospectus packet. Even the page on Cambridge University doesn't even bare any self-promotion in its introductory paragraph. If you really HAVE to dedicate yourself to promoting the reputation of the school, maybe add a sentence at the start of the "People" section, and maybe just mention that a lot of famous musicians have passed through the RAM's doors. See the wikipedia pages on Juilliard or Curtis Institute for examples of model neutral pages on leading conservatoires.

StephMin (talk) 15:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * "the RAM is more significant than other conservatoires in London, Manchester, Cardiff, Glasgow etc" HAHAHA - are you a student or professor at the RAM or something? or do work for their PR department? That is as far from an 'objective fact' as can be! Besides, it seems like the students themselves at the RAM don't even feel like the place is anything special: http://www.unofficial-guides.com/guides/ram-comments.html

Category for RAM Faculty
I think it would be interesting to create a new category for those who have served as teachers, lecturers, researcher or visiting professors at the Royal Academy (similar to "Category:Juilliard School faculty", that lists present and former faculty). I have called the list "Faculty of the Royal Academy of Music". --Kokoliso (talk) 18:40, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Distinguished alumni and staff???
I think only the names of really important alumni or staff (those who have made a serious national or international career) should be included. For example: 林宜融-Annie Lin, Virginia Black, Dora Estella Bright and Alan Harverson are not really well known people. Should they be listed as “distinguished alumni” of the RAM????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karljoos (talk • contribs) 01:52, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with the above. Today I removed two names whose articles have been multiply deleted for non-notability. Many of the other red-linked names are of very marginal notability. Also, without inline cites for those names which do not have Wikipedia articles, there's no way of knowing whether they actually are alumni. I'd strongly suggest following the usual procedure of restricting the list to those people who already have Wikipedia articles or whose ensemble does, e.g. Amelia Freedman (founder and Artistic Director of the Nash Ensemble); Irvine Arditti (founder of the Arditti Quartet). Voceditenore (talk) 13:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, you deleted the "notable" musical saw alumnus. That used to make me chuckle.  Well, all to the good. 78.45.1.3 (talk) 13:50, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

This list is ridiculous. This is a list of NOTABLE  alumni! I googled “Miguel Angel Munoz” and “Alan Harverson” and with all due respect, they are not a notable alumni! They’re probably good musicians, but they are not notable. I am sorry but not all RAM former students / alumni should be on the list, so I suggest that the alumni list includes only alumni with a Wikipedia article. --Karljoos (talk) 14:10, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

List of Royal Academy of Music people
I suggest to create a separated article to list all the alumni and staff listed in the main article and only include well-known names in the main article. Please visit Splitting and Stand-alone lists. They are large and obtrusive, and I really feel that a summary and link to a full article would make the main article more accessible. I've created the article and linked it from the main body of the article. Now maybe there could be a selection of the "most renowned" names. I suggest that the names included on the main body are the the ones that can be found on the website of the Royal Academy of Music. This is a difficult thing to do and I'd appreciate some help! --Karljoos (talk) 18:28, 12 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Here is an experiment. I have deleted several names from the notable alumni list and left those who are more "famous". I left the name of those alumni who have established outstanding international careers in their fields, won major international competitions and have made an impact on the world of music. Yes, I know this is highly subjective, but the list of "notable alumnni" as it is now, is too large and obtrusive, is full of names of not-so-well-known alumni. Not every alumni with an article has to be on the main body of the article. Lets be honest, not every conductor trained at the RAM is as notable as Simon Rattle, some alumni are more "important" than others. There're over 220 alumni listed under category:Alumni of the Royal Academy of Music. Imagine the problem of having the name of every single alumni on the category listed on the main body of the article. A complete list of alumni could be seen on List of Royal Academy of Music people‎. This separated article would list alumni, teachers and principals of the RAM. I am really looking forward to hearing comments about this. Thank you --Karljoos (talk) 13:28, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It is far too difficult to select some names, so I deleted the whole article and include relevant links to external lists of alumni and staff. I think the article is now easier to read.--Karljoos (talk) 17:16, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Connection?
Hi. I notice that a recent edit (despite what it says) manages to imply a connection between this page and the (newly created) page Royal Academy of Music (1719). Is there a connection? HWV258 . 09:14, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a hat note directing readers to alternate pages that have similar names. There is no connection, beyond the name. As far as I remember, the elder body was essentially a subscription system to specifically support Handel's composition under Royal patronage. Kbthompson (talk) 11:09, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

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