Talk:Royal Yorkshire Regiment

Untitled
Where is the news about the Duke of York being the Colonel-in-Chief listed? Will the Colonels-in-Chief of the three individual regiments still be involved? Hammersfan 4/3/06, 09.30 GMT


 * According to Regiments.org each battalion has a Deputy Colonel but not a Deputy Colonel-in-Chief. Interestingly the Army page names The Duke of Wellington as a single Deputy Colonel-in-Chief.  194.203.110.127 10:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Update
A short paragraph about HRH Prince Andrew's appointment is on the page, see the second to last paragraph, he is also shown in the info box. I can confirm that HRH The Queen had appointed His Grace The Duke of Wellington to be the Deputy Colonel-in-Chief of the Yorkshire Regiment. His Grace was The only antecedant Regimental Colonel-in-Chief who expressed an interest to continue an association with the new Regiment. It should be noted that other Col-in-Chiefs:- King Harald V (Green Howards), and the Katharine, Duchess of Kent (Prince of Wales's Own Regiment of Yorkshire), have ceased to have any official connection with the antecedant battalions after the merger on the 6th of June. Due to health related problems. Richard Harvey 18:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Is the 4th Battalion notable enough to warrant an article on it's own? As a unit it's only 3 years old and although individual members of the battalion have sevred in Iraq and elsewhere it's not been a unit deployment. NtheP (talk) 12:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment: Having originally redirected the article and talk page to the Yorkshire Regiment, within a few hours of the articles creation, I sat back and rethought the situation based on other Territorial units listed on the Territorial Army page. Such as the 3rd Battalion Royal Anglian Regiment (3RA). I felt the units notability was at least equal to that one and gave it a copy edit to remove the duplicated details and personel / trade details mentioned in the Territorial Army article, then reactivated it to see how it could progress once the Military Project workgroup had a chance to see it. If however it should be found better to merge it then so should the 3RA article. As for unit deployments: Note that in this day and age no TA units will be mobilised as a full unit deployment on active service, though could be on a training exercise, unless a full scale state of war is declared. The individual members element that have served in Iraq and Afghanistan have actually been in composite units, which are usually at platoon strength. The 4th Bn has just had one platoon of 25 members return from Afghanistan See:- Here. Richard Harvey (talk) 17:45, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment So does it meet wp:note? My thought is that it probably doesn't.  On the face of it you could reduce this article to 3 paragraphs.  Where it's HQ & companies are based, who it was formed from and when and that individuals up to platoon size have served in various theatres.  I'm not commenting on 3RA on the basis that takes us down the WP:OTHERSTUFF line a) because I haven't looked at 3RA and b) you could use the same arguement to say that there shouldn't be an article of 4YORKS because there aren't separate articles on 1YORKS, 2YORKS & 3YORKS.  I just don't think 4YORKS are notable to justify a separate article (that might be making a rod for my own back in that I end up arguing the same for every other TA unit that has a separate article but that's a chance I'll just have to take).   NtheP (talk) 18:14, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge, it's antecendents are a bit more complicated tahn some perhaps, but it has no nuit combat history, and generally it's regimetnal leveltraditions that are most imporatnat, and this article isn't long enough to warrant a split, and if it did need it, the regular battalions would have a better claim to notability. David Underdown (talk) 20:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

July revisions
I putting a reasoning in here because my edits seem to be disagreed with.

The lead section. In an article on a regiment formed in 2004 an extended list of the areas of historic Yorkshire doesn't sit right. If the intention is to show the areas in which the regiment recruits then a list of modern areas is more suited. Also there was as section on officer recruitment that to me just didn't make sense and isn't cited - "The same conditions exist for officers and many actively seek to join the regiment, due to its prominence in the sport of Rugby." I also delinked dates see Manual of Style (dates and numbers)/Date autoformatting for reason.

4th Battalion Two paragraphs deleted because they are generic to TA volunteers and are not specific to this unit.

History Entire section deleted because it did nothing except list all the antecedent units of the regiment which are covered in the lineage box later in the article. The exception is the 4th Battalion which has a convoluted and almost circular history and this does need expanding (possiblly with a separate lineage box?).

Lineage box I haven't touched this but it does appear to be making the mistake of trying to give all the names that antecedent units were known as in their history. To my knowledge The Green Howards were never known at any one time as Green Howards (Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own Yorkshire Regiment (19th First North Yorkshire Regiment of Foot)) Variously it has been 19th Regiment of Foot, 19th (1st North Riding of Yorkshire) Regiment of Foot, 19th (1st North Riding of Yorkshire - Princess of Wales's Own) Regiment of Foot, Princess of Wales's Own (Yorkshire Regiment),  Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own (Yorkshire Regiment) and The Green Howards (Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own Yorkshire Regiment). Similar lists could be made for most of the other units listed. There needs to be a clear decision made about which name is used not trying to cram them all into one line. NtheP (talk) 08:50, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Comment Your edits are not sacrosanct and if another editor feels they are incorrect they can be changed. In this case I felt they were. You first proposed that the '4th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment' article created by Co4Yks be merged into this article. I originally redirected that article, but later rescinded my original edit and undid my redirect. Your merge proposal was then taken forward by yourself as a redirect, with no merging of some relevant details and a considerable amount of deletion of factual details previously contained on this article page. I changed those where I felt it was required and also made some other changes as your edit also affected the page layout format when used on different monitor resolutions.

Lead section: The 'Historical' counties still exist and with regard to the military are still acted upon for recruiting purposes, that information is therefore informative and should not be deleted. You also deleted the details regarding the Regiments Freedom of Mosley, in Greater Manchester, held by the Yorkshire Regiment (by way of the 3rd Battalion), it should not have been deleted. The sporting prowess in regard to Rugby in the Regiment, particularly the 3rd Bn is well known through the rugby world. They have been the army champions many times over. A former British Lions Captain Mike Campbell-Lamerton and other Scottish and English Internationals started their Rugby careers as officers in the Duke of Wellington's regiment (now the 3rd battalion) Therefore the fact that some active rugby players actively seek the regiment out is worth mentioning. A reference could be provided, though I doubt comments in the Regimental Magazine are easily accesible to most readers. Note that only the autoformatting of 'All dates' in an article is discouraged there is nothing to stop the use for individual dates where itmay be useful, in this case I felt it was useful to allow readers to see what other regiments were amalgamated on the same date.

4th Battalion: The details may be generic to all units but are not easily found by linking alone therefore have no bad affect on the article section. You also deleted an external link to the history page of the 'Yorkshire Volunteers', which gave information pertinent to the battalions history, that was not located elsewhere on Wikipedia and was therefore allowed. Though I note you have now created an article on them, so I agree the external link is now no longer required

History section: If you also feel the 4th Bn history is convoluted and needs expanding then it is a bad way of showing it by deleting the whole section. Placed as it was the information is easy to understand and informative. Not all people read the lineage sections at the bottom of the page.

Lineage box: You say you did not touch it, yet your edit at 20:43 on the 26 July shows you did ! You deleted the '14th Foot' regiment number from the beginning of the 14th Foot West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own). The '15th Foot' from the 15th Foot East Yorkshire regiment. The (19th First North Yorkshire Regiment of Foot) in entirety from the Green Howards (Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own Yorkshire Regiment (19th First North Yorkshire Regiment of Foot)) and then changed the wording 'First' to '1st' on the '33rd Foot First West Riding Regiment' and replaced the word 'Regiment' with 'Foot', to read '33rd (1st West Riding) Foot', which is incorrect. The correct format for that should be as a word and not a numerical number. Though it should be 33rd Foot (First Yorkshire West Riding Regiment). I see no reason why the lineage box details should be changed, as they are fairly descriptive of the regiments titles, though I have added a couple of dashes as spacers to make it easier to understand. Richard Harvey (talk) 18:43, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Comment We are each entitled to our opinions. I maintain that the way the lead paragrpah is expressed is unwieldly. However as we will have to agree to disagree then I will not interfere further except to remove references to Cleveland which does not exist as a county either administrative, historical or ceremonial. Some references to the sporting prowess are required, see WP:BURDEN it should not be upto the reader to find their own references to an article.

4th Battalion The external link to the Yorkshire Volunteers is a) quoted in the external links section and b) in the new Wikipedia article on the Yorkshire Volunteers that has been created, so it is accessible elsewhere.

The reason I left the information out was that including it didn't add to the article overall. If you want a list of TAC's then create one as a separate list. Saying that the battalion is spread throughout Yorkshire is adequate IMO. The other paragraphs deleted would be best placed in the article on the TA.

The final paragraph says The 4th Battalion currently carries the four stands of Colours of the antecedent units of the 3rd Battalion The Prince of Wales's Own Regiment of Yorkshire (Yorkshire Volunteers) and 1st, 3rd & 4th Battalions of The Yorkshire Volunteers clearly demonstrating its recent changing but ultimately circular recent history. What needs expanding in this section or a history/lineage section is how the last four words are justified because it isn't obvious from this article. I know that since 1969 it's been TA battalions of regular regts to TA regts and back again more than once but that isn't explained here. Incidentally how many companies of the East & West Riding Regt came into 4 YORKS. The article implies three but the East & West had five companies, 2 DWR, 2 PWO & 1 KOYYLI. Were the four DWR & PWO merged into three?

History section If you maintain this is the right place for it then delete the lineage table - it duplication.

Lineage table Ok I made an alteration but I didn't make the changes to include the history of 4 YORKS. You haven't answered my point about names though. The Green Howards were never known by the name you use. To come up with a composite name risks spreading what you have created as fact elsewhere. NtheP (talk) 19:07, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Just a quick reply before I have to go elswhere. I follow what you are saying and feel we will eventually sort it out between us. As for the E&W riding regt:- the HQ company (Waterloo) was one company the two PWO companies, Quebec and Imphal (same names as the PWO Mascots - Ferrets), merged to form one company and the two DWR companies, Ypres and Fontenay, merged to form another. The LI company (Minden) went to the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers TA Bn. The 4th Bn has also got an Infantry Engineer platoon in Scarborough. Then there is the two Green Howards companies from the Tyne Tees Regiment. Richard Harvey (talk) 20:00, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we need to reflect this in the article. Something along the lines of "4 YORKS was formed from the two PWO companies from E&W Riding merged into one company (A company? )in the new battalion, the two DWR companies from E&W Riding, again merged into one company (B?) in the new battalion and two GH companies (C&D?) from the TTR.  HQ company came from E&W Riding."  I'm sure my guesses at the company designations are wrong but I hope you get the idea. NtheP (talk) 06:27, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Richard, if you get a chance can you check out the table on my sandbox. It's the lineage on 4 YORKS as I understand it.  If it's correct I'll tart it up and add it to the main article. NtheP (talk) 18:51, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi! I've passed that on for someone to check, though it seems okay to me and as per the YV website history page:- Here. The new lineage box looks okay on the article so I have deleted the History section list of antecedent unit wikilinks. I've also added a section on Freedom awards, which are notable in their own right. Having done some photo's of todays award in Rotherham, the first 'New award' to the regiment. I feel that the other awards should also be mentioned. This is a section that can also be expanded with images of some of the scrolls, so I will sort some out from my collection. I note though that the DWR's Freedom of Erquinghem-Lys, France is not listed, so I will check up on that, as its the only Freedom awarded by a French town to a British regiment. Richard Harvey (talk) 18:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Recent change
Hi, sorry to be an idiot here but I think that you need explanation for the history not just a lineage box which I personally find to not be very useful, especially for those of us a non military background. Keith D (talk) 21:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keith, it's not an easy history but I've tried to add a narrative history. Please let me know what you think. NtheP (talk) 21:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That looks better, though complicated it can be understood. The main problem with the diagram lineage is what will they sound like when read by screen readers. Will they still be intelligible and convey the meaning that sighted people can appreciate from the diagrammatic representation? Keith D (talk) 21:41, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose that will depend on the alt text facility if you can apply same to a diagram like you can an image. NtheP (talk) 21:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

3rd Battalion 2009-10
3Yorks have had more than 90 people deployed to Afghanistan (more than 4Yorks) for much of 2009 and upto April 2010, the only mention of their contribution is the sad death of pte Young, can info on 3yorks deployment be added and the deaths of Cpl Riley and Lcpl Shaw also be included —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.169.97.222 (talk) 00:10, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Also note the Malgir article. However please note that 3Yks, as a seperate Battalion, is not currently involved in the Afghanistan theatre of action, having been the Demonstration battalion at the Land Warfare Centre based in Warminster, followed by training and evaluatioin at Suffield in Canada, though its known they have 'bolstered' individual 2 Yks companies with manpower. As for deployments "upto April 2010" that is WP:Crystal Ball territory, as anything could happen in the next six weeks. Richard Harvey (talk) 10:16, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Problems with article

 * 1) The table Lineage of 4th Battalion suggests the Tyne-Tees Regiment and the East and West Riding Regiment became the 4th battalion which is clearly wrong.
 * 2) See WP:NOTMEMORIAL Wikipedia is not the place to memorialize deceased friends, relatives, acquaintances, or others who do not meet such requirements. Jim Sweeney (talk) 22:46, 2 May 2011 (UTC)


 * 1.Why do you say it is 'clearly wrong' when it is factual? The table lineage is correct. Note the 4th battalion, like it's antecedent units, is a Territorial Army battalion. In a nutshell:- The Tyne-Tees Regiment was formed in 1999 by the amalgamation of the 6th Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers (Volunteers), 4th/5th Battalion The Green Howards (Yorkshire Volunteers) and 7th Battalion, The Light Infantry. As part of the restructuring of the infantry announced in 2004, the Tyne-Tees Regiment was broken up, with its constituent companies going to their parent regiments: A & B Companies merged to form B Company 4th Battalion The Yorkshire Regiment. X, Z and C Companies formed the 5th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers. The East and West Riding Regiment was also formed in 1999 by the amalgamation of the 3rd Battalion, The Prince of Wales's Own Regiment of Yorkshire (Yorkshire Volunteers), the 3rd Battalion, The Duke of Wellington's Regiment (Yorkshire Volunteers) and the King's Own Yorkshire Yeomanry (Light Infantry). In 2004, the Light Infantry company was replaced by a company of Green Howards. On 6 June 2006 the HQ company & four infantry companies (Duke of Wellington's and Prince of Wales's Own) transferred to 4th Battalion, The Yorkshire Regiment. The Minden (Light Infantry) Company (ex Kings Own Yorkshire Yeomanry) was broken up with their Doncaster detachment transferred to 5th Battalion Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, joining C (Durham Light Infantry) Company as the (Yorkshire Light Infantry) Platoon. The Wakefield Company and Headquarters was disbanded rebadged and formed the nucleus of the newly created Parachute Royal Engineers Squadron.  The Yorkshire Regiments official MoD website page also mentions the Tyne-Tees regiment here:- 4th Battalion history. Note that the formation of the Tyne-Tees Regiment and East West Riding Regiment's respectively took in the various elements of the antecedent Yorkshire Volunteers and their history can be seen on their website page:- Yorkshire Volunteers History. Richard Harvey (talk) 07:27, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


 * 2.The details of these soldiers deaths has been written as basic factual information and does not read as a memorial to their deaths in any way. Whilst deleting the information you also deleted a notable fact IE: that one of the soldiers had trained with Prince Harry, who had personally mentioned him in a news release after his death. That notable information was also referenced. The information given is no more a 'memorial' than the details of other British military casualties given on the British Forces casualties in Afghanistan since 2001 article. There are numerous articles on military casualties listed under several sub headings at Category:Military personnel killed in the War in Afghanistan (2001–present), some of which have been expanded to contain more details, such as the article about Johnny Micheal Spann. Richard Harvey (talk) 07:27, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * So the linage should reflect that only some companies from those regiments became the 4th battalion.
 * Deaths of individual named soldiers should not be recorded, jump forward 10 years and 500 men have been killed, to list them all is clearly not workable. Jim Sweeney (talk) 08:59, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The table did include such explanation when I first added it - see this diff. I don't know when they got deleted but I think that putting them back resolves this point. NtheP (talk) 20:26, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The article section 'Battalion roles' includes details regarding the lineage of the 4th Bn. Richard Harvey (talk) 21:53, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

The battalion numbers have already changed
http://www.bfbs.com/news/all-change-yorkshire-regiment-64199.html

Someone update.Phd8511 (talk) 20:03, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 11:08, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Regimental colours
The Regimental colours section mentions the Elephant & Howdah; does anybody know what this represents? The section also mentions the Dannebrog Cross, a Danish honour; does the elephant and howdah represent the Danish Order of the Elephant? Moonraker12 (talk) 12:33, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

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