Talk:Roza Shanina

Notability
Is she famous for being hot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.108.3.220 (talk) 07:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No, she is famous for shooting people. She was hot, though.--172.191.205.200 (talk) 05:46, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Some confusion over the accuracy of the dates that she received the Orders of Glory, June 18th and September 22nd. Excerpts from http://www.airaces.narod.ru/snipers/w1/shanina1.htm say that she received Order of Glory 3rd Class on 1st of May 1944 ("Накануне Первомая 1944 года" = "On the eve of the 1st of May 1944"). The same excerpts from the biography and letters from her friend P. Molchanov on May 28th (which you can find on that same page) also suggest that 3rd Class was received far before June 18th. Additionally, since she was mentioned as having received some Order of Glory in the June 9th issue of the newspaper "Уничтожим врага!" (from first line of http://www.a-z.ru/women_cd2/12/4/i80_207.htm), I think May 1st is probably the right date for it, rather than June 18th.

Additionally, I'm not sure September 22nd is the right date for the Class-2 one, since cross-referencing the biography and her diary excerpts are written as though she received the 2nd Class Order of Glory before some events that took place in late June (during said Belarus/Litva campaign). Maybe the Class-2 Order of Glory is June 18th?

Either way, I could be wrong, but I'm just curious where these dates were obtained from, I'd like to know, too. :) 173.55.242.194 (talk) 12:21, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing out. 18 June actually comes from Ovsyankin ("Документы, выявленные в то время, помогли восстановить некоторые подробности фронтовой жизни юной северянки. "В Советской Армии с 22 июня 1943 года, – гласил один из них. – На фронте с 5 апреля 1944 года. 18 июня и 22 сентября награждена орденом Славы 3-й, а затем 2-й степени"). The reason I'm still in doubt about the 1st May source credibility is that it incorrectly writes Valentina Nikonova instead of Valentina Nikolayeva. The best option is to contact the Archive of Russian Defense Ministry on behalf of this. Twilight chill  t   01:12, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

dont talk down to me boy! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.202.41.66 (talk) 20:23, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah. Interesting, thanks for the link, I missed those... strange that they don't match up with the other documents. As for the Nikonova/Nikolaeva discrepancy, it was noted in those excerpts that use of "Nikonova" and "Nikolaeva" just differ across editions of her biography, and it's speculated it could just be that the author chose to slightly change it in one edition. (I'm sure you saw that, not sure how accurate that is.)


 * Either way, it does note that Valentina's death's was entirely under question, regardless of whether or not Nikonova/Nikolaeva is indeed just a difference in editions, granted that Shanina wrote about a Nikolaeva later, as the quote states. And, of course, I'm sure the biography is possibly full of poetic licenses, with regards to the chronology of events, so my speculations about May 1st is mostly rooted in the fact that she had already received the award by the time the June 9th "Уничтожим врага!" issue was published. If there's a way to contact something as credible as the Ministry, that'd be fantastic. Either way, great work around here, article is becoming excellent! 173.55.242.194 (talk) 01:32, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Higher-res version of main image
Hello, I have found a higher res version of the main image available here if somebody can upload and replace it. I haven't done anything with images on Wikipedia yet so I don't want to accidentally break a good article (or remove any important data on the previous image.) Thanks. Dataxpress (talk) 05:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Done, thanks. Brand meister  t   18:51, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Flexible limbs
Can it be true that the Red Army "begun deploying female snipers because they had flexible limbs"? Even if women's arms are flexible, what has that got to do with being a sniper?Royalcourtier (talk) 19:01, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

"pinion her out of war's way"
I find the claim that "Shanina was not drafted that month as the local military commissariat wanted to pinion her out of war's way" hard to accept. Firstly if there was a universal draft the commissariat could not chose to shelter people. Secondly why keep this girl out of harms way? Thirdly the expression should be "keep" her out of harms way, not "pinion".Royalcourtier (talk) 19:04, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That's what the provided source says. Original Russian quote form that page: "Ей было только 16 лет, но она, не раздумывая, потребовала от военкома немедленной отправки на фронт. Приходила к нему раз, другой, третий, получала отказ за отказом... Сначала от ее просьб отмахивались - не до тебя, мол, девочка, иди лучши учись..." ("She was only 16 years old, but instantly demanded from the military commissariat an immediate sending to the front. She came to it once, twice, thrice, but received repeated refusals... Initially her requests were denied - they said she was redundant, that she would better go to study"). Brandmeistertalk  10:42, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The original source was in Russian. "Pinnion" is not the correct translation - it is not correct English term. I would suggest that the correct translation would be "keep her out of harms way".Royalcourtier (talk) 09:35, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't mind. Brandmeistertalk  11:09, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Patronimic
Ehr.. Her patronimic is "Egorovna", not "Georgevna"... -- SERGIO  aka the Black Cat 16:41, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * There's already a note, see Roza_Shanina. Brandmeistertalk  07:54, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok. -- SERGIO  aka the Black Cat 09:59, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Not the first female sniper awarded the Order of Glory.
Nina Petrova was a sniper awarded the Order of Glory several months before Shanina. Nina Petrova received the award 2 March 1944, while Shanina recived the award 17 April 1944.--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 01:12, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've checked the Podvignaroda.ru database and it seems our reference is wrong on that, so corrected. Also, changed her decoration date to 18 April per scanned commendation. Brandmeistertalk  11:32, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Letters of recommendation of Shanina's Orders of Glory
Why are there parts censored in recommendation of Shanina's Orders of Glory's letters? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.210.117.175 (talk) 21:09, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Privacy issues, I think. The letters mention her home address and place of birth, so censored to avoid disclosure. Brandmeistertalk  12:09, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:38, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Roza Shanina.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:11, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Roza Shanina with badge.jpg

Total kills
, as for " There is no external source that verifies their claim" - have a look at Brayley, Martin; Ramiro Bujeiro (2001). World War II Allied Women's Services. Osprey Publishing, page 37 and Pegler, Martin (2006). Out of Nowhere: A History of the Military Sniper. Osprey Publishing, page 160 (both cited in the article). They are independent of Soviet sources. Also, a sniper log book is written and maintained by an individual sniper, not Soviet government itself. Brandmeistertalk  14:15, 23 May 2023 (UTC)


 * As I have said before, these sources has been checked. Both of the books are written long after world war 2 and they have collected information from those sources that cites the number claimed by soviet governments as the origin of the information. Moreover, You can't separate a sniper from a government as they are part of the government. Not to mention the canadian newspaper which, itself, cited soviet government as the source which has been cited as the source in this page. Have a look at the link. Gorgon Slayer (talk) 14:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * First, whether a book is written long after WW2 or not, is irrelevant here. Many reliable WP:SECONDARY sources are written by experts long after the war. Secondly, the Soviet claim is 59 whereas those independent cited sources say 54, so it doesn't appear they relied on Soviet number. Lastly, I see your failure to distinguish between a sniper and a Soviet government troubling. Brandmeistertalk  14:46, 23 May 2023 (UTC)