Talk:RuPaul's Drag Race season 5

Abbreviations in contestant progress
Am I the only one who thinks the abbreviations "HIGH", "IN", "LOW" are a very poor way of conveying Top 3, Safe, and Bottom 3, respectively? The colors should also make sense, i.e. red should be used for elimination since red signals danger. My suggestions:

I'm actually tempted to think that the light green and and light red "safe" (aka high/top 3 and low/bottom 3) colors aren't necessary since sometimes Ru can be pretty ambiguous about whether a queen is high/low or simply safe, and that only the challenge winner, bottom two, and eliminated colors are needed. I realize RuPaul's Drag Race is not the only show that utilizes this type of table, but perhaps they could all use a little improvement. MarkMc1990 (talk) 02:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I would have to agree with you. I think that the current format is okay, but it could definately be improved. I agree that HIGH, IN and LOW is not really clear. I like your suggestion. However I think that the "Was one of the best but did not win/was one of the worst but did not lip-synch" is relevant. Especially early-on during each season, there is definately a different between a "safe" contestant and a "one of the best/worst". We should keep those in. As far as the color scheme goes, I don't really care. The current one is okay. If you check other reality tv pages on wiki, green does not always mean best, and red doesn't mean eliminated, or worst. But depending on people's opinion, we could change it. And if we do decide to change the format, we would need to do it for every season; keep that in mind! ─  F a b z z z  talk  03:47, 18 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, here is my opinion. Sorry if you don't like it, but here it goes. I LOVE the color scheme. I also LOVE the way it is stylized. Makes perfect sense. My only concern regarding this change is if the word "SAFE", regardless of the color, may run together too many times and create a headache for the reader. I just worry about that for some reason. It may be a long row of "SAFE", rather than the shorter abbreviations "HIGH", "IN", and "LOW". If no one else thinks this could be a concern, then I am all for the change in the table style. I do have one other question regarding the change. If it decided this format will change, which it must change for all seasons, will the All-Stars table be changed, and if so, how? There are several different color codes and meanings, and I was just wondering how it would be done? I just want to assure this change won't be a hassle to do for ANY page in the Drag Race series. Looking at it now, I could understand why the user suggested a change, especially with all of the colors. There are some other notes that need a color scheme (non-elimination, Miss Congeniality, STAYING to get to the finale, etc.), but it can be worked on in time. As long as a stable color scheme is installed to avoid random colors all over the place, as well as the SAFE issue, I think it would be decorative to the articles. - Asd17 (talk) 06:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)


 * My suggestions... First, we need to keep accessibility in mind, particularly when you recommend a red/green scale. WP:COLOR has more info. I definitely like the idea of switching to a more gradual scale like this because it's more easily analyzed at a glance. I kind of like sticking with the Win, High, In/Safe, Low, Out/Elim, but adding the BTM2 for the current "yellow" category. This would also help with that accessibility problem since they recommend an additional way to distinguish a box beyond color. Also perhaps a blue to red scale instead of green to red? (Red/green colorblindness is by far the most common.) Something like this:


 * Also, while we're discussing it, I don't particularly see the need to distinguish the BTM2 where there was and wasn't an elimination (e.g., with Roxxxy/Alyssa this season). They were still the bottom two. The fact that there isn't an elimination listed that week makes the rest obvious. The all-stars thing is just confusing though. I don't even know where to go with that insanity. --Siradia (talk) 03:32, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that ^ makes a lot of sense. (...especially agree with the all-stars table, it's madness!) The blue to red also is a good idea imo. I don't mind about having HIGH and LOW instead of just SAFE/IN, but the BTM2 and ELIM is an idea we should keep. And to what Asd17 was saying about the fact that if we put SAFE all over the table it's gonna look like a row of SAFE, there are other tv shows that use the SAFE, like True Beauty, and it doesn't look too bad, but IN is fine too. I don't mind about any of those two. ─  F a b z z z  talk  03:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * blue to red instead of green to red is fine with me. And I agree that "non-elimination" bottom two is an unnecessary distinction and does not need it's own color since they were still the bottom two. I also think the "STAY" column in episode 13 of Season 4 looks kind of silly and unnecessary, but that's just my opinion. As for Miss Congeniality, I always thought that was poorly conveyed in the table as well. My honest suggestion is to not mention it in the table at all since it really has nothing to do with the progress of the actual competition. MarkMc1990 (talk) 18:20, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

So I've attempted to do a test on the season 4 table, that's how it looks:
 * The contestant won RuPaul's Drag Race.
 * The contestant was the runner-up.
 * The contestant won a challenge. In Episode 1, the contestant was also awarded immunity.
 * The contestant was one of the best but did not win the challenge, or was the member of a winning team.
 * The contestant was one of the worst but was not in the bottom two.
 * The contestant was in the bottom two.
 * The contestant was eliminated.
 * The contestant won a challenge but was disqualified from the competition.
 * The contestant was voted Ms. Congeniality by viewers.

So I've kept the Ms. Congeniality color, removed the episode 13 when all queens stayed, and didn't change the definitions. Do you see something that you don't like or would like to change? (before updating every season) ─  F a b z z z  talk  04:10, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks much better already! I would also make the Winner box gold and the runner-up box silver, with third place (where applicable) getting either a bronze box or the regular red ELIM box. Example:


 * And I still think Miss Congeniality doesn't need a color in this particular table, but I guess I can live with it. MarkMc1990 (talk) 08:28, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Now that I can see a full visual, I actually like it. Stable, Easy to read, and for some reason, it looks like it makes more sense to say "SAFE" rather than "IN". Very nice job. I went ahead and altered the tables for Seasons 1, 2, and 3, but only posted it on their respective talk pages in case there were any disagreements for others to state. I even made some modifications to the All-Stars table, to fit the idea we are setting. It can also be found on its Talk Page for opinions. If the format is changed, or if the suggested format is updated, it can be noted there. - Asd17 (talk) 14:29, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Here is the Season 5 table after the finished product. Again, just for opinions. If it can be used, it only requires a copy-paste into the article. That way it is already taken care of instead of having to go back in and change everything. Figured I would complete it while I had some time on my hands.


 * The contestant won RuPaul's Drag Race.
 * The contestant was the runner-up.
 * The contestant was eliminated in third place (did not compete in final lip sync).
 * The contestant won a challenge. Winners in Episodes 1, 2, and 4 received immunity in the next challenge.
 * The contestant was one of the best but did not win the challenge.
 * The contestant was one of the worst but was not in the bottom two.
 * The contestant was in the bottom two.
 * The contestant was eliminated.
 * The contestant was voted Ms. Congeniality by viewers.

Alright, well if everybody agrees with this format, why don't we go ahead with the change for all seasons, shall we? ─  F a b z z z  talk  03:40, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You have my support! MarkMc1990 (talk) 09:23, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It is official! All tables have been updated with a note on each of their Talk Pages stating the change, as well as giving editors the opportunity to state oppositions instead of undoing the changes. I am very impressed with this new style. Thanks to all the Editors who made this change possible. Asd17 (talk) 11:23, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't know why the elimination table needed to be changed. The colors now are more difficult to distinquish between. The only thing I agree with is the gold, silver, bronze colors for the top three places. Someone last month also removed the arrow buttons at the top of the table so things can be reordered in alphabetical order, age, win to out status etc. That feature needs to be brought back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6031:4F:31CF:4D93:100A:5802 (talk) 18:20, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree about the arrow feature, it was somewhat useful. However, I totally disagree with the arguement on the color thing. I think this color scheme actually is EASIER to read, and makes a lot more sense than the old scheme. Just my opinion. Asd17 (talk) 20:29, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello. I love the new table. However I think the color scheme needs a bit of tweaking. The colors I've suggested are widely used in the elimination tables all across Wikipedia maybe cause they're very apt to be honest. Plus the concept of 'Top 3' and 'Btm 3' and 'Btm 2' can be very easily understood through this and long descriptions below the table become unneeded which is a good thing.

-- I'm Titanium   chat  05:32, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Sometimes there aren't three people in the top or in the bottom in certain weeks. Sometimes there may be 2 or 4, (ex. week 3 of this season; Alaska, Vivienne, AND Lineysha were all declared part of the worst, but still safe). Or as in Weeks 1 and 2, four people were listed in the top. That is why we kept the LOW and HIGH marks, in case there were more or less than three people in either direction. As for the color scheme you have proposed, there is just something about it, that missed what the user was actually hoping to change. The scheme is based on levels. First with a dark blue, transcending down to a light blue, and after SAFE, begins with light pink to signal the start of the worst of the week. The yellow transcending to the light green doesn't feel right. The orange is darker than the salmon, which is another confusion, because as the level gets lower, the darker it gets. Not trying to discredit anyone, I am just trying to show editors reading this section why the table was changed the way it was. Asd17 (talk) 10:25, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Exactly. With the newly implemented blue-to-red scale, you could basically look at the table cells and know if they did good or bad that week without even reading the word inside the box. If you do yellow, then pale green, then white, then pink, then dark orange, then light red, it won't flow as logically. MarkMc1990 (talk) 17:18, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * One of the main reason for the change was to have better fluidity between colors depending on their performance that week. Like the last two person said, going for light green to yellow for the best, and then pink and orange for the worst is a bit confusing and would just re-establish the "problem" we had in the first place. I think the HIGH and LOW does the job well to represent if one queen was one of the best/worst, and can be use regardless of how many there are. And going back to what someone said about the sorting arrows; I don't think it was that useful. You don't really see that on any reality-TV show page on wiki. When you click to sort a column, it messes the whole table and once you've sorted one column, there's no way to go back to the original table without refreshing the page. No one has complained about it and it's been like that for a lot more than a month since it has been removed. I think it's better like that and nothing should change, color scheme and arrows. ─  F a b z z z  talk  21:27, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

The one that is currently on the page is very confusing and makes no sense whatsoever. I'm thinking this would be better:

Any variation can be used, but it is much better than the above proposals. Also, the whole gold/silver/bronze angle makes no sense. There is no true second or third place (no proze given, etc.) so why would it be colored like that? Having that information is definitely misleading to the reader. 108.213.242.122 (talk) 23:37, 27 April 2013 (UTC)


 * What's truly confusing is why people are arguing with the new format now. Someone proposed it about 2 weeks ago, and people that edit on wikipedia and know how to improve a page and make it better gave their opinion about how it should be modified. We came to a conclusion and decided to change all seasons of drag race to this new format. If you see some minor changes that can be done, like the first/second place coloring, that should be changed, fine, we will see what we can do. But I really don't think that re-putting the LOW for both bottom 2 and worst of the week makes sense, I really don't think orange and pink are appropirate colors for LOW, I really don't think just leaving a blank for queens that are safe represents well a queen's performance and this would be truly misleading; more so than the gold and silver. The current version, in general, is perfectly fine like it is and has been approved by many wiki users, and will remain like that. Like I said, we still can see about the first/second coloring. ─  F a b z z z  talk  17:24, 28 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Can someone explain to me how on earth pink to orange to light red possibly makes more sense and is less confusing than a gradual change from light to dark red? Also, as far as 2nd/3rd place, that is only true for this season and season 4, in which case they share silver. The first 3 seasons had clear 2nd and 3rd placers. Since the changes apply to all seasons, the bronze was discussed here. MarkMc1990 (talk) 18:48, 28 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I like the current color scheme like it is now with the gradual color change. I think that makes more sense. ─ Matthewi (Talk) • 23:58, 28 April 2013 (UTC)


 * First, please get off of your high horse thinking your opinion matters more than non-registered users. I have an account (retired) and have edited wikis for many many years. Second, people who are color blind need to be taken into consideration, and your 'gradual' change in color is nearly impossible to differentiate for them. That is why you see other show pages using the colors that they do. Gradients are bad for the wiki and against policy per visuals. You need pretty distinct colors on the chart. 108.213.242.122 (talk) 04:02, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * And this is exactly why we introduced BTM2 and ELIM. This allows people that look at this page to differentiate someone that is safe, to someone that did bad, to someone that was in the bottom 2, etc, beyond the color boxes. If you would've read the whole discussion, you can see that this issue has been adressed already. And it's not about being on our "high horses", it's about saying our opinion and improving the page. Nobody here said anything about non-registered users. ─  F a b z z z  talk  17:02, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Update: June 27, 2014
I know I'm extremely late with this, and I actually previously supported the current color scheme, but an unregistered user, 74.73.51.11, recently tried to add this color scheme to all the charts (though his edits were reverted), and, though only a slight change, I feel it's an improvement. It looks more esthetically pleasing. They only changed Royal Blue to Dodger Blue, and Light Blue to Sky Blue. Laid out this way it looks reductive, but when you view it as a part of the Contestants table it makes a huge difference. What do you all think? It's just an idea.--LurganShmith (talk) 15:35, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Before
 * After
 * Examples:
 * Season 1
 * Season 2
 * Season 3
 * season 4 (they also change Disqualified to black here, can't say I mind that change either)
 * All Stars

Lip-sync chart
I realize the info is stated in each episode summary, but I thought this could be useful. MarkMc1990 (talk) 07:33, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I like it. I think that you should put the drag queen who stood on the left hand side of the stage, before and after they lip-synced for their life, on the left and the same with the queen on the right.

Gregaga (talk) 00:18, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your feedback. I arranged them alphabetically, but your idea for left/right side of the stage works too. Someone else would have to review the episodes though since I couldn't possibly know off the top of my head for any of them. MarkMc1990 (talk) 07:40, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Left Side - Penny Traition, Serena ChaCha, Monica Beverly Hillz, Vivienne Pinay, Detox, Coco Montrese, Alyssa Edwards, Ivy Winters, Alyssa Edwards, Detox, Jinkx Monsoon
 * Right Side - Serena ChaCha, Monica Beverly Hillz, Coco Montrese, Honey Mahogany, Lineysha Sparx, Jade Jolie, Roxxxy Andrews, Alyssa Edwards, Coco Montrese, Coco Montrese, Detox

Just in case you needed to know. Asd17 (talk) 10:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I would be willing to make these tables for all seasons (I made one on the Season 3 talk page too so you can see what a completed one would look like. The only thing I am unsure of is how to handle a situation in which 3 people compete in a lip-sync such as the Final 3 of Seasons 4 and 5. MarkMc1990 (talk) 17:24, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Support I love this. This should be on every season.--LurganShmith (talk) 02:00, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Table Color Edits
Some users are once again challenging the current color scheme. Ideas for new additions users are adding to the table include:
 * Double Elimination
 * Week 2 (contestants who actually did better than being just safe, due to being a team challenge).
 * Perfoming poor, but being safe only by use of immunity.
 * 2nd best in each challenge.

I actually viewed the page for season 2 of Paris Hilton's My New Bff, and was shocked by all of the different colors used on that table. Users have engaged in edit wars because of disagreements about what is represented on the table. The Wikipedia community and editors of the Drag Race pages need to discuss what colors should and shouldn't be on the table, since it appears there should be more noted than there actually is. Personally, I agree with the note about week 2, several contestants did really great, but because this was based on a team challenge, they were only noted as SAFE. Season 4 episode 2 can be identified in the same way. Asd17 (talk) 17:20, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The contestants table is perfect like it is. We just changed it to a more concise and accurate format. We don't need to turn this into a rainbow with a ton of different colors. It just gets confusing at some point. You said it, look at the New Bff page and see how much of a mess it is? Exactly. You don't wanna turn this table into a headache for the viewers. The table is clear enough as it is. Other necessary info is either in the episode summary or as a footnote. ─  F a b z z z  talk  23:40, 28 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Agree completely. Keep it simple. It isn't intended to be the only source of all information. While week 2 has always felt like an "asterisk" week to me (needing some explanation), I don't think there's a good way to list it without messing the whole thing up. I vote no changes. --Siradia (talk) 03:45, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Notes for lightblue and pink
I'm just gonna use this as a section for notes on each episode. This starts after Ru brings the queens back after judge deliberations. Lists in order the queens and their status.

Episode 1
Jinkx, Detox, Honey, Monica, Vivienne, Alyssa, Coco called safe. Deliberations. Ivy critiqued positively and called safe. Alaska critiqued positively and called safe. Roxxxy called the winner. Lineysha critiqued positively and called safe. Serena announced bottom 2. Penny critiqued negatively. Jade Jolie critiqued negatively and called safe. Penny announced other bottom 2.

Oath2order (talk) 09:11, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 2
Winner of the main challenge announced as Team Ivy. Lineysha announced as winner. Ivy, Honey, and Vivienne are safe. Deliberations for others. Monica, Serena both announced up for elimination. Everyone else is safe.

Oath2order (talk) 09:11, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 3
Honey, Ivy, Jade, Alyssa, Lineysha asked to step forward. Lineysha called to be "lucky to have immunity". All called safe. The rest of the queens are best and worst. Roxxxy critiqued positively and called safe. Jinkx just called safe. Monica called bottom 2. Detox called winner. Alaska critiqued negatively but called safe. Coco critiqued negatively. Vivienne critiqued negatively and called safe. Coco called bottom 2.

Oath2order (talk) 09:11, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 4
Jinkx, Ivy, Alyssa, Vivienne, Roxxxy, Honey step forward. Everyone else safe. Deliberations. Alyssa announced as winner. Ivy announced as safe. Jinkx called safe. Honey called bottom 2. Roxxxy critiqued negatively. Vivienne critiqued. Roxxxy called safe. Vivienne called bottom 2.

Oath2order (talk) 09:11, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 5
Jade, Coco, Alyssa step forward. Alyssa critiqued negatively, but mentioned her immunity. All three called safe. Alyssa low, others safe. Deliberations. Roxxxy called safe. Jinkx announced winner. Alaska called safe. Lineysha called bottom 2. Ivy critiqued negatively. Detox called bottom 2. Ivy safe.

Oath2order (talk) 09:11, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 6
Deliberations. Winner announced as Ivy. Jinkx is safe, no comments. Roxxxy is safe, no comments. Detox called safe, warned for more expectations. Alaska warned for "coasting on kooky", called safe. Coco called bottom 2. Alyssa critiqued negatively. Jade called bottom 2. Alyssa called safe.

Oath2order (talk) 09:22, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 7
Deliberations. Alaska critiqued positively, called safe. Jinkx critiqued positively, called safe. Coco called winner. Detox called safe. Alyssa called bottom 2. Ivy critiqued negatively. Roxxxy critiqued negatively. Ivy called safe. Roxxxy called bottom 2.

Oath2order (talk) 09:24, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 8
Jinkx called safe. Detox called safe. Alaska called winner. Ivy called bottom 2. Coco called safe. Alyssa critiqued negatively. Roxxxy critiqued negaitvely and called safe. Alyssa called bottom 2.

Oath2order (talk) 09:27, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 9
Deliberations. Roxxxy critiqued positively and called safe. Alaska called safe. Jinkx announced as winner. Alyssa announced bottom 2. Coco critiqued negatively. Detox critiqued negatively. Coco announced bottom 2. Detox called safe.

Oath2order (talk) 09:29, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 10
Jinkx critiqued positively and called safe. Roxxxy called winner. Coco called bottom two. Alaska critiqued negatively. Detox called bottom two. Alaska called safe. Oath2order (talk) 09:43, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 11
Alaska called winner. Roxxxy critiqued positively and called safe. Detox and Jinkx called bottom 2. Oath2order (talk) 09:46, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Episode 12
Each queen called safe. Oath2order (talk) 09:48, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Final table

 * The contestant won RuPaul's Drag Race.
 * The contestant was the runner-up of RuPaul's Drag Race.
 * The contestant was voted Miss Congeniality by viewers.
 * The contestant won a challenge.
 * The contestant received positive critiques but was ultimately declared as "safe".
 * The contestant received negative critiques but was ultimately declared as "safe".
 * The contestant was in the bottom two.
 * The contestant was eliminated.
 * The contestant returned as a guest for the finale episode.

Ratings
Can we get a ratings section for this season? Seanmurpha (talk) 05:12, 24 April 2017 (UTC)