Talk:Ruby/Archive 1

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Untitled May 2004
Normally I don't like to mention prices in a wikipedia article, but I don't know how else to say that synthetic rubies are *incredibly cheap*, compared to "natural" rubies. Does posting the $15 price on the [Ruby_(gemstone)] article violate NPOV, and if so, what can I do to fix it ? (I am not associated with Edmund Scientific other than occasionally buying a few items from them). -- DavidCary 01:38, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

The sentence "Ruby" lasers operate with a corundum lasing medium. is technically correct, although it implies that there is no "real" ruby in a ruby laser. Synthetic rubies are used in lots of lasers (such as the rangefinder in the M-60 battle tank http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/laserssl.htm#sslhrl ).

Would it be better to say "Ruby lasers" use a synthetic ruby as the lasing medium. ? (Are there any lasers that use any form of corundum that is any color other than red/pink ?)

-- DavidCary 01:38, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

The article currently claims "Most manufactured rubies have dopants added to them so that they can be identified as artificial." This may be true, but I suspect it's a misunderstanding of the fact that *all* rubies (natural and synthetic) have chromium as Doping Dopant in the semiconductor sense. References ? DeletedUnlessDefended -- DavidCary 01:38, 18 May 2004 (UTC)


 * I've removed the pricing and commercial link: aside from being highly inappropriate, it didn't really say much. The price of artifical rubies depends on the process used to make them, and the quality of the cutting. Flux rubies, for example, can still be pricey for most people (although far cheaper than naturals).


 * As for the sentence about dopants, it's entirely false. There was one specific brand of flux ruby, the Ramaura ruby, which included a dopant to identify them as artificial under UV light. It was a family business run by two women, and they've sinced retired. They were very high quality, of course, and they often rejected bribes in order to omit the dopant.


 * I've corrected a few more errors (none made by you, I don't think), but this article still needs a lot of work. It seems I'll have to abandon my recently self-imposed rule of "no editing of articles on subjects which you are a professional", because I'm shocked at how long such misinformation stood. Oh well. -- Hadal 06:05, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Hadal, as the supplier of the ruby pic I have an interest in this article so here's a thought ......
 * Wouldn't exactly the opposite rule be best i.e contribute particularly to articles where you are an expert? How else could errors be corrected that only a professional will know about? Best Wishes, Adrian Pingstone 08:25, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Myanmar rubies are well known for their high quality

is this true? i removed it because i didn't know and couldn't find much in a quick google search to back it up. Dreamyshade 04:17, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Possible contradiction in article
The article says that all rubies have imperfections. This would mean that 100% of rubies have imperfections. A few lines down, it looks like it says that some rubies are perfect. Could someone fix this? Evan Robidoux 22:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

New link
Hi, I recently added an "External links" section with a link to ruby-sapphire.com. It was reverted by Vsmith as spam, so I'll make the case for it here (sorry I wasn't logged in before, I didn't expect the link to be disputed). I'm not affiliated with the site, I added it because in trying to learn about ruby I've found it to be the most useful site on the web. Admittedly it's partially of a commercial nature. The site's author is selling his book, "Ruby & Sapphire". But the site also has about 50 useful articles, including few sample chapters from the book. The wikipedia policy is to allow links to "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links ).

It covers a lot of topics not yet covered in the wikipedia article, such as judging quality, enhancements, world sources, and prices. I have found that someone spending 30 minutes on the site would be more knowledgeable than every jeweler in my city! I would like to see some of this information incorporated into the wikipedia article, and the site used as a reference, but until then I think the link alone would benefit readers.

If linking to the site isn't acceptable, perhaps using the book as a reference or "further reading" section would work? Like this:

--Grendzy 15:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, the website appears to be a promotional site by the author to sell his self-published book. That is why the link was reverted. If you wish to add content based on material from the book, then it can be cited as a reference. Additionally, your comment that you weren't logged in at the time seems a bit odd as the above comment is your only contribution. Anons and brand new users promoting pricey self published books are viewed with skepticsm. Vsmith 16:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Contradiction; can anyone fix?
The section on the largest rubies contradicts that in the G Vidyaraj article -- which ruby exactly is the largest in the world? There are no sources cited in either article.

Richard Hughes
You should reconsider Richard Hughes website and book. He is one of the foremost experts in Gemology, and is recognized by many gemologists and jewelers as one of the great hands on field experts. There are others, but they have not published a book. I own the book, I would not consider it self promotion other than I doubt publishers would print something that specialized that a non PhD wrote. Chapter 4 on Color, Spectra and Luminescene has an excellent table on page 73 where he discusses Electronic transistions on dispersed Cr3+ ions,  Intervalence Charge Transfer, Ion pair transistions   etc. The photomicrographs of ruby inclusions are an invaluable guide to determining origination of the stone, and I know of no other source other than course notes from Gemology classes that have this info. Detection of Heat treatment is also a unique chapter. In summary the informational quality and reference materials supplied in the book far outway awkward and crass attempts at marketing that may portray this excellent reference work as just eye candy.

70.171.240.21 18:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC) John LeBourgeois

Pricing
Some information about pricing, especially historically and mined vs. synthetic rubies would be interesting. -- Beland 19:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Phenomenon
I just read this page and I think the snippet about stars in the phenonmenon section is still very ambigous event after having read the pages linked to from this page. I don't know exactly what needs to change so that this becomes meaningful, perhaps a picture is the best way to clarify what in the world you are talking about. thanks, JKrabbe 16:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Reworded a bit - hopefully more clear now. Also chnged the section title and other stuff. Vsmith 17:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Infobox Color
I reverted the color to the default for the minerl infobox, see my comment on the wikiprojectGemology and Jewelry talk Page --Kevmin 22:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Fact Check Please
Someone added a whole section, very poorly written at the bottom of a section, discussing "fun stories" and spouting about random myths and legends with no citations, and contradicting the factual parts of the history (in very broken English). i cleaned it up as best I could, and added the heading "Historical and Mythological Use". Can someone who knows their facts look this over? Thanks. Mfrisk (talk) 07:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Hist/Myth Use
If no one can find citations for this section in a week or so, I will delete it. I suspect it is based on questionable original research, and frankly, I think it's all fake. Check rev. history, it was written in poor English and originally was formatted wrong for WP, and ended with an emoticon ":-)"164.47.100.68 Mfrisk (talk) 01:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm deleting the section, since no one can verify or cite. Feel free to reverse this upon verification and citation of fact asserted, Mfrisk (talk) 07:03, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Records
I deleted a paragraph from the Records section that had no references and looked a lot like original research. Saying that "gemologist's who have seen the stone say it is one that is fit for the record books" does not, in fact, make it notable. Yet. Let's wait for the stone to actually get in the record books first, shall we? Alessandriana (talk) 20:21, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Mrs. Bauer
The only thing the page says right now is "Mrs. Bauer is the fattest person in the world. Someone needs to rewrite the page. ??? Bionicle Fan (talk) 22:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Crappy photo
The photo of the faceted ruby is bad. I mean, that's a poorly-colored washed-out stone. We need a different photo. --24.21.148.155 (talk) 05:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

How about this? [] Bionicle Fan (talk) 22:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Valley of Rubies
This section clearly falls out of line in this B-rated article. Materialscientist (talk) 11:59, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Of the world's rubies, the finest are found in Myanmar (Burma). Burmese gems are prized for their hue and high degree of saturation. Thailand buys the majority of Myanmar's gems. Myanmar's "Valley of Rubies", the mountainous Mogok area, 200 km (125 miles) north of Mandalay, is noted for its rare pigeon's blood rubies and blue sapphires. Working conditions in the Mogok Valley are primitive and as such similar to mining conditions in other parts of the world.

In 2007, following the crackdown on pro-democracy protests in Myanmar, human rights organizations, gem dealers, and former US First Lady Laura Bush called for a boycott of a Myanmar gem auction held twice yearly, arguing that the sale of the stones profits the dictatorial regime in that country. Debbie Stothard of the Alternative ASEAN Network on Burma stated that mining operators used drugs on employees to improve productivity, with needles shared, raising the risk of HIV infection: "These rubies are red with the blood of young people." Brian Leber (41-year-old jeweler who founded The Jewellers' Burma Relief Project) stated that: "For the time being, Burmese gems should not be something to be proud of. They should be an object of revulsion. It's the only country where one obtains really top quality rubies, but I stopped dealing in them. I don't want to be part of a nation's misery. If someone asks for a ruby now I show them a nice pink sapphire."

Richard W. Hughes, author of Ruby and Sapphire, a Bangkok based gemologist who has made many trips to Burma points out that for every ruby sold through the junta, another gem that supports subsistence mining is smuggled over the Thai border.

Colored infobox?
I remember a while ago that the gemstone infoboxes were the same color as the gem, more or less. That is, the ruby infobox had red boxes, the sapphire had blue, etc. Why were these removed and changed to a rather boring shade of blue? I realize it's a minor issue, but I think it really added an appeal to the visual aspect of the article page. 68.113.163.50 (talk) 15:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Liberty Ruby - Is there a need for a section "named rubies"
Should a section be added for 'named, unique rubies'? Suggestion for addition to such a section - "Liberty Ruby". Citation:
 * --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 15:54, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Telltale bubbles
Moved from Template talk:Talkback, header added -- John of Reading (talk) 07:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Aloha From Hawaii,

The idea that telltale bubbles can be detected with a common loupe may have been accurate many years sgo.

I have in inventory over 500 Rubies. Not a single on can be determined to be lead glass treated with a 10X loupe.

Your conclusions may have an ill informed source but, on the ground experience says you know nothing about this particular issue.

Phil — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.234.117.44 (talk) 03:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Aloha From Hawaii,

Respectfully, allow me to submit that your source is the GIA and the link does not work. GIA is primarily a diamond related business. Hardly an unbiased source. The information is truly outdated and perpetuates a myth created for commercial purposes. Who knows the date of the article... it doesn't connect. Who knows what the content is.

Bad myths perpetuated by academic hautier.

Phil — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.234.117.44 (talk) 03:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Aloha From Hawaii,

Here is the reason that I care about this issue.

Technology has moved far beyond the point where bubbles can be detected with 10X loupes.

The damage is done when folks are told; "No worries, this is a real stone because you cannot see bubbles with a 10X loupe." Surprize, you just bought a treated Ruby as untreated. Only a Chelsea Filter can detect this treatment. Glass portion will show as a grape color. The Ruby will show as Red.

Phil — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.234.117.44 (talk) 04:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Adding direct link to Ruby (programming language at top
See this edit I made yesterday. I feel like it may be useful to directly link Ruby (programming language) on the page instead of clicking through the dab page to get to it. FrameDrag (talk) 13:15, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Contamination confusion
According to the sapphire article, ruby is a major variety of sapphire that has been contaminated with chromium. According to this article, corundum is a major variety of ruby that is uncontaminated with chromium. Help? --Kizor 10:02, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

It's very simple. Every kind of aluminum oxide is called corundum. Some kinds of corundum have small amounts of chromium, which makes them look red -- we call those rubies. Other kinds don't have chromium, so they don't look red (but other impurities may tint the transparent aluminum oxide a wide variety of other colors) -- we call those sapphires.

I deleted the infobox text "Ruby when uncontaminated with chromium", to hopefully stave off more such confusion.

I wish I knew why chromium looks red when mixed in transparent corundum, but it looks green when mixed into transparent beryl. --70.189.75.148 02:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * FYI, that information is in the reference given under "Physical Properties", edit pending; different surrounding electron orbitals afect Cr ions to produce different band splits.66.19.92.241 (talk) 03:06, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2016
Purpose: At end of 1st paragraph under "Physical properties", correct absorbtion band (not just yellow-green) and add more precise explanation of color, add more precise explanation of laser. Add some links and add file Ruby_transmittance.svg already used in Ruby Laser article. Remove date & info on laser here which is already in several paragraphs below.

REMOVE: Ruby is α-alumina (the most stable form of Al2O3) in which a small fraction of the aluminum3+ ions are replaced by chromium3+ ions. Each Cr3+ is surrounded octahedrally by six O2− ions. This crystallographic arrangement strongly affects each Cr3+, resulting in light absorption in the yellow-green region of the spectrum and thus in the red color of the gem. When yellow-green light is absorbed by Cr3+, it is re-emitted as red luminescence.[4] This red emission adds to the red color perceived by the subtraction of green and violet light from white light, and adds luster to the gem's appearance. When the optical arrangement is such that the emission is stimulated by 694-nanometer photons reflecting back and forth between two mirrors, the emission grows strongly in intensity. This effect was used by Theodore Maiman in 1960 to make the first successful laser, based on ruby.

ADD: Sapphire, ruby, and pure corundum are α-alumina, the most stable form of Al2O3, in which 3 electrons leave each aluminum ion to join the regular octahedral group of six nearby O2− ions; in pure corundum this leaves all of the aluminum ions with a very stable configuration of no unpaired electrons or unfilled energy levels, and the crystal is perfectly colorless.

When a chromium atom replaces an occasional aluminum atom, it too loses 3 electrons to become a chromium3+ ion to maintain the charge balence of the Al2O3 crystal. However the Cr3+ ions are larger and have electron orbitals in different directions than aluminum. The octahedral arrangement of the O2− ions is distorted, and the energy levels of the different orbitals of those Cr3+ ions are slightly altered because of the directions to the O2− ions. Those energy differences correspond to absorption in the ultraviolet, violet, and yellow-green regions of the spectrum.

[insert File:Ruby_transmittance.svg caption:Transmittance of ruby in optical and near-IR spectra. Note the two broad violet and yellow-green absorption bands and one narrow absorption band at the wavelength of 694 nm, which is the wavelength of the ruby laser.]

If one percent of the aluminum ions are replaced by chromium in ruby, the yellow-green absorbtion results in a red color for the gem. Additionally, absorption at any of the above wavelengths stimulates fluorescent emmission of 694-nanometer-wavelength red light, which adds to its red color and perceived luster.

After absorbing short-wavelength light, there is an interval of time when the crystal lattice of ruby is in an excited state before fluorescence is actually emitted. If 694-nanometer photons pass thru the crystal during that time, they can stimulate more flourescence photons to be emitted in-phase with them, thus strengthing the intensity of that red light. By arranging mirrors or other means to pass emitted light repeatedly thru the crystal, a ruby laser in this way produces a very high intensity of coherent red light.

66.19.94.180 (talk) 11:13, 29 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done. Sarahj2107 (talk) 08:29, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Rubies in the Bible
Our article states that rubies are currently referred to in the Bible starting from the Book of Exodus. The Britannica Online article states "Although the word ruby is used in the English translation of the Old Testament, it is improbable that ruby was known to the ancient Hebrews." What do we base our claims on in the article? I have asked for citations in the text. Capitalistroadster 03:58, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's because the word in Hebrew is general for precious stone. Rubies were discovered much later in the time of the writing of the Hebrew Bible.  The word in the text is modern Hebrew for pearls. Saxophonemn (talk) 07:58, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Ruby
ruby r the birthstone of july —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.228.48.191 (talk) 19:43, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Description of "Ruby" - Can we add a word? Can we add the word: "precious" in front of the word "gemstone" so that it reads "precious gemstone" in accordance with the common man's perception that it is 'precious' or of higher value than the 'semiprecious' gemstones of lower (Moh's) hardnesses? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:547:C080:12F0:5D06:DAE5:4326:BD4 (talk) 20:40, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2016
In the third paragraph of the Physical Properties section, an editor has used the spelling "thru" twice. This spelling is only acceptable in informal writing, and should be changed to the standard "through".

150.203.65.121 (talk) 21:47, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * ✅. — MRD2014 (formerly Qpalzmmzlapq) T C 23:07, 30 May 2016 (UTC)