Talk:Ruby Laffoon

Wording of the lead
If you look at most U.S. politicians, with a well-constructed lead, the wording is superior to the present of this article. The wording should be "...was an American politician who served as the 43rd Governor of Kentucky from 1931 to 1935." This formatting of the lead is most concise, and logical. Firstly, nationality as an American supersedes his state residence; secondly, the title of office "Governor of Kentucky" not only lists the office itself, but establishes that his highest office, which is the one of primary mention, was as head of a U.S. state; thirdly, the range of service establishes the period of his prominence.

As it presently stands, the lead is misleading and improperly constructed. While the official name of Kentucky is the "Commonwealth of Kentucky," as opposed to "State of," referring to it as the "U.S. Commonwealth of Kentucky" is wholly erroneous. Why? Because while Kentucky's official name incorporates the term "Commonwealth," it does not cease to be a state. Furthermore, calling it a 'Commonwealth' as opposed to 'State' is in error, for a U.S. Commonwealth is an insular area, unincorporated, which presently include the Northern Mariana Islands and Puerto Rico. The aforementioned lead wording, which was reverted, is a proper construction. Using the phrase "He was the Commonwealth's 43rd governor" is not only in error due to the usage of "Commonwealth," but it also fails to establish the office in formal terms, which "43rd Governor of Kentucky" does. The rest of the lead still clearly establishes him as a state-level politician, and mention of nationality is prudent. This wording is of good syntax, and is widely accepted throughout articles in Wikipedia, see Mitt Romney, Pat Brown, Jeb Bush as among similar examples.  Spartan7W  &sect;   14:18, 18 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd like to hear from on this, but do you have any sources to back up your claim that "Commonwealth of Kentucky" is improper? Or is that just your opinion? Acdixon meticulously researches his articles, and I'd be surprised if this is an improper way to write about Kentucky. I can live with the rest, as it's more or less subjective. -- Laser brain   (talk)  14:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't disagree that the official name of Kentucky is "Commonwealth of Kentucky," but this does not remove the fact that Kentucky is a U.S. State, that there are not 46 states and 4 commonwealths, but rather, 50 states, of whom 4 refer to themselves as commonwealths. The title commonwealth, in this application, is an antiquated label with no meaning. The link used in the lead itself, to "U.S. Commonwealth" directs to an article covering unincorporated insular areas, whose title 'commonwealth' has legal meaning, of which Puerto Rico and the Northern Mariana Islands are included.   Spartan7W   &sect;   15:15, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * (ec) :: Thanks for the ping, LB. I would take exception to the notion that "Commonwealth of Kentucky" is incorrect. In fact, it is so styled in the Kentucky Constitution, as it is in the constitutions of the other three states known as commonwealths – Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts. Also note that Wikipedia has two separate articles on U.S. commonwealths – Commonwealth (U.S. insular area), which deals with the situation that Spartan exemplifies by Puerto Rico and Northern Mariana Islands, and Commonwealth (U.S. state), which deals with the nomenclature used by Kentucky and three other U.S. states. The notion, stated above, that "while Kentucky's official name incorporates the term "Commonwealth," it does not cease to be a state" is only half the story; it is also true that because it is a state, it does not cease to simultaneously be a commonwealth. It is not uncommon here in Kentucky for folks, especially politicians, to refer to our state as "the Commonwealth", so it's not just an anachronistic designation.
 * All that said, I typically start my leads along the lines of "{Person} was a {job} and politician from the U.S. state of Kentucky." I haven't checked the history, but I feel certain that another editor made the good faith change to "Commonwealth" at some point, and as both are correct, I probably just left it that way. I have no particular attachment to the current wording and agree that the proposed is more concise. I like noting that Laffoon was born in Kentucky and later became governor, as contrasted with say, Simeon Willis or Brereton Jones, who were from Ohio and West Virginia, respectively, before becoming governors of Kentucky. But if there is an accepted convention, the nativity designation is far from a deal-breaker for me. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:17, 18 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree with the above, my biggest issue was the link of 'U.S. Commonwealth', previously in error. But I do believe, in this instance, (if present wording was kept, although I'll change it to the agreement on the proposed), saying he "was the state's governor" is better, simply because the average reader might conflate the two. Saying "the state's" wouldn't be in error, and I think so long as "commonwealth of" is prefixed, there is little issue with using "state" later, to assure the reader that the two are the same thing, practically.  I can include Kentucky birth in the lead, no problem.   Spartan7W   &sect;   15:24, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

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