Talk:Ruby McGregor-Smith/Archives/2015

Neutral point of view and UNDUE - National Minimum Wage
At present, more than a third of the article body is taken up by the "National Minimum Wage Controversy" section, which is about a company with which McGregor-Smith is involved, not about McGregor-Smith herself. Of the three sources used for this section, only one even mentions McGregor-Smith at all. This is UNDUE weight in a biography of a living person, and makes the article non-neutral. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 13:04, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments and viewpoints.

I would like to explain by saying that the section I have included is indeed about 'National Minimum Wage Controversy'. That is the topic I have included on Ruby McGregor-Smith's Wiki page. This is because Ruby McGregor-Smith's company MiHomeCare according to reports and investigations by both the BBC and CorporateWatch are controversially from 'internal documents' 'both the BBC and CorporateWatch claim to have seen have not been paying their care workers for their travel time.

The reason there is only reference to McGregor-Smith in the section about the Mail's 'This is Money' is because Ruby McGregor-Smith is not mentioned as having made a comment to either the BBC nor CorporateWatch in either of their reports. However, Ruby is CEO of Mite and Mite's comments to CorporateWatch's report and investigation are included. 86.136.94.114 (talk) 16:54, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I am new to Wiki. So would appreciate any helpful advice.

86.136.94.114 (talk) 16:54, 29 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The report in question is about a single small branch of a relatively small component of the very large organization of which McGregor-Smith is CEO. The CEO having responded to the press about the topic is perhaps useful as an indication of the significance of the topic as regards the organization, but not the significance of the topic in the Wikipedia biography about the CEO. I notice that MiHomeCare is not mentioned by that name on the Mitie article itself, and indeed nor is McGregor-Smith mentioned in that article except in the infobox. Anyway I am removing the content from this article, as the only place that a brief mention of the topic would be merited, would be in the Mitie article. I wonder if the topic of low-paid workers not being paid for travel time is also relevant in other articles, as I am sure I have seen it mentioned in the press in other contexts. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 00:11, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I am extremely disappointed that you have removed the edit about National Minimum Wage in its entirety as the flouting of Minimum Wage by care providers like MiHomeCare is a very important issue and a shocking problem in social care. Mihomecare who are part of Mitre and whom Ruby McGregorSmith is CEO. MiHomeCare is owned by the outsourcing giant Mitie and last year Mitie made £49m profit and MiHomeCare £8.2 million.

It surely cannot have escaped your notice that flouting of minimum wage is rife by service providers like MiHomeCare and that the subject has been high on the agenda of MSM for the past 18 months.

I could have included another link from the BBC that says MiHomeCare is not paying its working the minimum wage in two Welsh branches and also in English branches Devon and Surrey. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32715728

It is also the case that a care worker is now suing MiHomeCare for non-payment of the minimum wage. For you to remove all parts of my edit I think leaves me feeling you are biased towards presenting only Ruby McGregor's 'positive' achievements. I think anyone reading Wiki should know that she is far far from the perfect 'business' role model that your Wiki page would suggest.

I think it might help if you read this piece below:

'Mitie’s CEO, Kingston graduate Ruby McGregor-Smith, was due to speak at the Kingston University’s Business and Law Faculty on 12 March 2015 on the theme of ‘Strategic Challenges for the Outsourcing Industry’. The corporation was already under heavy criticism for persecuting cleaners organising for the London Living Wage and other basic rights. Then Channel 4 News exposed horrendous conditions in Mitie-run detention centres. McGregor-Smith’s lecture has been cancelled, but she is still celebrated on the university’s ‘Wall of Fame’. It is vital that there is a critical debate on Mitie, the outsourcing industry, and what this means for human rights'.

I think it would have been preferably and fair if you had actually edited my piece rather than remove all evidence of McGregor-Smith's business dealings and the issues of the national minimum wage controversy. As your page for McGregor sits presently - it is more like a fairy tale than a balanced page of the real McGregor-Smith.

I would very much appreciate if you reinstate my edit or include the issue of minimum wage and non-payment yourself to your exacting standards, but including it nevertheless.

Thank you.

BebbyReb (talk) 20:15, 3 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Bebby, for explaining that you believe that I am biased. What is MSM, by the way? I have asked for advice at Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 21:52, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Arthur. MSM is Main Stream Media. Kingston University London. I do think that your total removal of a very serious issue of non-payment of minimum wage involving McGregor's company MiHomecare completely from her Wiki page, lends the page to be unbalanced. To include the issue which has been reported by the BBC and msm in the UK would be to give a better balanced wiki page.

Can you please kindly help explain how I can include this issue without you removing its entire content. Or how I can seek others opinion on including such a very important issue that involves McGregor-Smith's company and it's controversy of not paying its care workers their legal entitlement to the minimum wage.

Thanks for you advice in advance.

BebbyReb

BebbyReb (talk) 09:51, 4 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello I have to agree with Arthur goes shopping that this biography of a living person is not the best place to add that information. If you can source the issue using references from the reliable sources you mention above I suggest you include it in a controversy section for the Mitie corporation article. I suggest that you add the information in a neutral fashion giving a balanced weight to the different views as reported by reliable sources on the matter.--Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 15:12, 4 September 2015 (UTC)