Talk:Ruckus Network

Mac compatibility
According a couple of college news sources, Ruckus is working on a Mac-compatible version of the program, an important step in gaining market share since this past year is the first that Apple sold more laptops than Dell to the higher education niche of the market.

 

I can't find anything else on Google news, does anyone know more about this? Bgnuf (talk) 14:21, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Global availability
"Global availability: Ruckus is only available to college undergraduates, alumni and faculty located in the United States." I think this should be changed. I'm a spanish student and I'm able to use the service with my .edu e-mail, so I guess it should be the same for any country, isn't it?Sakura1083 (talk) 22:32, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * You're wrong. Perhaps they have not caught you, but if you are in Spain or any country other than the US, you cannot use the service under the terms of the EULA .  216.68.56.218 (talk) 09:17, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

TuneBite inclusion?
What is the legal status of stripping files of their protection? Plasticbadge 21:17, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Programs like TuneBite are technically legal under current copyright law. In these instances, they do not strip the DRM from the file, they merely make an analog recording of the music. However, programs like this are never encouraged.


 * Thanks, some mention of that will be noted in any future reference to like software. - Plasticbadge 16:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Ruckus' terms of service has the following section regarding breaking the DRM:

iii. You may not attempt (or support others’ attempts) to circumvent, reverse engineer, decrypt, violate, breach, bypass, or otherwise interfere with, or assist in the foregoing action or attempt, of any security components or digital rights management (“DRM”) protection encapsulating, encoding, accompanying, or applied in any way that protects the Content. (Source: http://www.ruckusnetwork.com/termsofservice.php)
 * This means that if you enter into contract with Ruckus (i.e. use their service), under terms of agreement you cannot use such an application and may be subject to some sort of penalty. Of course they cannot know if you do or not unless you share the music (which itself is illegal), or if their software is secretly watching what you do with the .wma protected files (which technically possible and *should* be illegal)- it's a short jump from Adware to BADware.  MJKazin 15:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * While making an analogue of the file isn't technically an attempt to "circumvent, reverse engineer, decrypt, violate, breach, bypass, or otherwise interfere with, or assist in the foregoing action or attempt, of any security components or digital rights management (“DRM”) protection encapsulating, encoding, accompanying, or applied in any way that protects the Content", I wouldn't personally try it (although people certainly do). The lawyers throw up a lot of vague language that could make a mighty mess if you get caught testing it. - Plasticbadge 22:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Two things
Two things I'm not really sure about...

First: Is there any reason that Hymn is one of the external links? Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't it only work with iTunes files?

Second: To quote the article, "The Ruckus library of 1.5 million songs is far less comprehensive than Apple’s industry-leading iTunes music store (with 2 million songs)." Is this from a source or just opinion? Personally, I don't think having only 75% as many songs as the industry-leader is far less. --Desheffer 02:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

--I think half a million songs is quite significant, but I could live with "notably less comprehensive".Plasticbadge 18:32, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Being smaller than the biggest retailer doesn't seem like a very valid criticism, to me. I might as well complain about my shoe not having a cheese grater on it. Yes, iTunes is bigger. That's a pro for them, not a con for everyone else. I don't see any benefit to criticizing it by means of comparing it to a competitor, especially when that competitor is the biggest in the biz, and has an entirely different business model. 64.0.144.163 20:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If someone can't find what they want, the service is inferior. This is not a difficult concept. -Plasticbadge 01:00, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * By that standard, it is indeed inferior to iTunes, but it's a Criticisms section, not a "Comparison to iTunes" section. I simply don't see how this comment is different from putting "CON: Is not iTunes" on every single retailer page except iTunes. I guess it wouldn't be as silly if the article didn't compare the service specifically to iTunes, and just said "Relatively limited selection of songs" or something. Although even that is actually quite deceptive, because 3 million is a very respectable number. That's about as good as any non-iTunes service gets. So basically all that point says is "Not as good as the best," which, as was my point originally, is a very foolish criticism. 68.181.224.36 04:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Let's say that I go to a car dealer and they don't have the model I'm looking for. They tell me they will likely never get a shipment, nor will they order one for me.  The dealer across the street has the exact model I want in stock - in two colors.  Following your logic, I should not be at all critical of my experience at the first dealer.  I disagree.  "But", you say "they have plenty of suitable models that do pretty much the same thing".  They may both roll down the street, but a VW Beetle and a VW Phaeton are not even in the same league in terms of performance or quality.  It would take quite a sales pitch to convince someone otherwise.  Wikipedia is a community information source. Failing to tell readers that the Ruckus library is significantly off pace of the industry leader is misleading. -Plasticbadge 15:48, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Say you go to five different car dealerships, none of them have the car you want. There's that one though, that has the car, in two colors, and free donuts, too. It's deceptive to portray the first dealer you went to as sub-par on account of the superiority of another one. When it comes to comparison, the better dealer is better, no question. Props for them, the other guy just can't compete. But when you're talking about one dealer specifically, "not leader of the pack" isn't an rational criticism. Ruckus' song selection is inferior to iTunes. That doesn't mean it has an inferior song selection in general. I'm not saying you shouldn't mention the song selection. I'm saying that it shouldn't be stated as a number one criticism as a direct comparison to the industry leader. You could convey it easily with a sentence like "Substantial song selection, although still significantly behind the industry leader." That would be an honest portayal of the song selection, rather than unecessarily painting the service in a negative light, by means of an unfair comparison.

If Wikipedia thinks this is fine, then okay. My faith in Wikipedia's neutrality will be lost, but I'll live my life just fine.64.0.144.163 19:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry you have lost faith in Wikipedia's neutrality, but I can assure you I have no dog in this fight. I'm not an Apple or iTunes fanboy, nor do I have any associations to any of the companies discussed.  I buy physical CDs, and my two computers are a Windows laptop and a Linux desktop.  Beyond that, I can only ask that you trust me when I say I have no motivation to see any store or format prevail.  My main aim is to make Wikipedia as complete of an information source as possible, and I can't justify removing what I think is a reasonable enough complaint about the Ruckus service.  I know that anyone not using iTunes or torrents to get their music will probably be frustrated by a limited library at one time or another.  In Wikipedia, I try to not to remove information unless there is a good reason, and I feel it would weaken the article to strip out any mention of a conspicuous flaw in the service.  If it is to be mentioned, as even you have conceded, where else but in criticisms?  Falling short of the industry standard - however unattainable - is a weakness for Ruckus.  Wikipedia is not advertising for the many products it has articles on. The shortcomings must be covered just as throughly as the features. ~

Facebook Scandal
Maybe this isn't big enough to land on wikipedia, but there's a bit of a scandal going on at Facebook.com in regards to Ruckus. They put a fake profile called "Brody Ruckus" who started a group promising that he would get a threesome if he got over 100,000 members. Today, he and his group were kicked off of the site for violating the terms of service for being a false profile to advertise Ruckus Network. It made it onto VH1's "Best Week Ever". I could write up a blurb for this page if it is deemed okay.Minidoxigirli 22:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC) ___ I think we should hold off until we know more. I've been watching this page for a while and it seems someone with the company keeps trying to wipe off any "unfavorable" elements of the Wiki article, so I wouldn;t be surprised if they stooped to that level. It really doesn't involve their product (and I'm sure they will deny any official involvement anyway), so why give them more free publicicty? Wikipedia is no place for ads. Unless this baloons into somthing beyond the scope of childish facbook Global Groups (vh1's best week ever content is user-submitted so it means next to nothing), I see no reason to add it, but as always I would reserve judgement if things change. Plasticbadge 22:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I am amazed that Wikipedia has deleted the Brody Ruckus page - this was a powerful social phenomenon that invovled over 300,000 individuals. It has been covered in major student newspapers - http://www.studlife.com/media/storage/paper337/news/2006/11/03/News/threesome.Facebook.Group.Allegedly.A.Scam-2437716.shtml?norewrite200611030613&sourcedomain=www.studlife.com&mkey=1491036


 * Too little is known for absolute sure, and it really is a trivial piece of underhanded, tasteless failed marketing. As for the student newspapers - there is rarely any assurance of quality, as the writers and editors may or may not be trained in journalism techniques.  As a personal policy I try to stay away all but the best regarded student newspapers.  Anyway, the article does make mention of allegations of shady marketing techniques and links to an article.  I see no need t make a change until more information comes to light. - Plasticbadge 14:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It has been added, but the information is still shady. I would have preferred to have waited but let's see how it goes. - Plasticbadge 00:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Partner Schools List
It might be time to retire the partner schools list. This information is avalible on the company site anyway, and it changes so often the result is lots of meaningless edits rather than real progress on the meat of the article. I'd like to hear your feedback. - Plasticbadge 01:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Given that Ruckus no uses the subscription monthly cost model, it is important to include the list of available Partner schools. The business model has changed -- this is therefore very relevant. - Nroseszu 10:57, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * New partners are added and old ones are dropped too frequently for there to be an accurate record on Wikipedia. We tried in in the past and it was frankly a mess.  The information is easily avaliable on the company website anyway, so it is not as if users will have any difficulty getting the information.  I don't doubt the relevancy of partners, just the sense in keeping up an unwieldy database on Wikipedia. - Plasticbadge 16:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * In response to your claim on my userpage that the Ruckus website is not up to date, I would say that if a company cannot keep a list of partners current, it is hardly Wikipedia's place to keep a more accurate list than they themselves have. This confusion only proves that such a list has no place in Wikipedia. If we don;t use the company website for a basis for our list, we are doing original research which is against Wikipedia policy. That is the crux.  Our only reliable source was the company website, which is clearly linked, so what is the point of trying to replicate their list continually?  It is a mess on many levels, and I see no real reason it should be included. -Plasticbadge 16:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The following is not adspeak, stop removing it. It is the most specific and accurate description of the company to date. Users cannot access Ruckus unless they are students at a Partner School. I understand not posting the entire list to Wikipedia, however there is now a link to Ruckus page with this information as was requested earlier.


 * Ruckus is an online music service that is available at certain American colleges with which the company has a partnership with.


 * I take no umbrage with that clarification. This takes the heavy lifting off of our shoulders, and is a logical progression. - Plasticbadge 22:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

New logo?
A user has claimed he worked for Ruckus and tried to upload a new logo image. I tend to believe he works for them based on his edits, but this image needs to be released to Wikipedia via the accepted methods. Until it is shown to be open for free use I will continue to remove it. - Plasticbadge 23:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Think I figured it out -- thanks. - Nroseszu 21:10, 7 November 2006 (EST)

Screen Shots
Are the inclusion of screen shots on the article page permitted? - Nroseszu 21:10, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * They are permitted, but they are rare in similar articles and in my opinion just take up server space. Most users will be familiar with online media marketplaces, and software versions often change, so the usefulness is questionable imho. I would recommend against it in most circumstances.  - Plasticbadge 02:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Most Wikipedia users might be familiar with online media marketplaces -- however, our target demographic might benefit from such screen shots. Thanks for the stamp of legal approval. - Nroseszu 21:32, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * This article isn't necessarily only for your demographic. Remember that any uploaded photos use Wikipedia's bandwidth, so please don't simply upload fir the sake of uploading.  bandwith is expensive, and asking Wikipedia to pay your server bill server tab is bordering on rude.  - Plasticbadge 02:45, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Can I say anything without you breaking out the 'haterade'? Haha, kidding :)  - Nroseszu 22:02, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * I don't think its unreasonable to ask that there be a compelling reason for any large files added to the already gargantuan burden on the Wikipedia servers. - Plasticbadge 03:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Cost-free DRM
The media is cost free, bust carries certain DRM restrictions, such as licences that must be renewed periodically. Saying that the software is free is not strictly true for this simple reason. I'd rather keep the whole mention of it out since it is a faily complicated issue to bring up in the opening paragraph. It is addressed in full in the features section. - Plasticbadge 02:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * In response to our edit-battle: I am merely contending that users can gain cost-free access (meaning the creation of an account, the ability to log in, and to download media -- albeit DRM music). You are more concerned with DRM and the community associated definition of "free" -- you stated "media is not fully free to be copied and played on any platform it carries drm and is not strictly free." It should be noted that this portion of the debate/information is clearly explained it its proper hierachy location on the article. My usage of the word "free" is in reference to user's accessing the Ruckus service/site based in terms of monetary factors (Napster, CDigix -- you have to pay to even access their service/site), not in definition of actual ownership of media because of DRM. - Nroseszu 21:56, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * Sure they can create an account, but if all media has DRM embedded, it is not strictly free in the software sense. It is probably best to leave any mention of this out of the opening paragraph.  "Free" is a very strong word, and using it suggest a lot more than cost when referring to software. - Plasticbadge 03:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. We both have valid arguments -- I think we were just arguing two different points though. No matter, both our issues are made clear in the other article sections - Nroseszu 22:27, 7 November 2006 (EST)


 * Glad we could be civil. - Plasticbadge 03:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Mediation
Hello. It's your friendly neighborhood mediator here. In order to de-escalate this issue (and allow me to catch up with all the edits that have happened since I stepped away from the computer), may I kindly ask the both of you (Nroseszu and Plasticbadge) to stop editing for the moment? I have placed this page on my watch page so I can take care of any clear vandalism. Thanks so much, and sorry for the delay. Gzkn 05:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * No worries, I'll only edit if he tries any funny business. - Plasticbadge 05:36, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I have created a subpage - Talk:Ruckus Network/Mediation. Let's continue our discussion there. Gzkn 07:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Funny business? Ha, apparently it's your world man, and I'm just living in it. - Nroseszy 09:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't treat me like a child. I've seen enough corporate vandalism on this site to know it when I see it.  Please continue this on the mediation page. - Plasticbadge 16:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

DRM
Has the DRM been cracked?


 * This isn't a forum. If you're referring to Microsoft's DRM, do a Google search.  Dmarquard (talk) 01:27, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

goombahcom
Just did a (required) update on my Ruckus player. It updated the software and also put in a program called goombahcom, that after googling appears to be malaware. After looking around my computer, I was notified that this program was accessing my browser as well as my iTunes. Just a heads up to all Ruckus users about this, you can remove it from the add/remove control panel window, under Goomba. Should/Can information on Malaware be included in the main entry? HeadTalking (talk) 05:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Criticism
I've removed the criticism that is not Ruckus specific. Some were criticism about the subscription music format in general, which can be read in that specific page.

Its like writing under Ford as a criticism "tired use rubber from trees that had to be cut down" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jass (talk • contribs) 17:33, 28 January 2009 (UTC)