Talk:Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer/Archive 1

Ethnicity
I don't really see why Mark's ethnicity is even noteworthy, especially since it's not mentioned for any one else. Is it because Judaism has some sort of rule about Jews writing Christmas songs? Is it so rare to find people of any religion or ethnicity doing something for a paycheck? I'm sure there are some Jews who sell hot dogs- who cares? Leave it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.37.251 (talk) 01:14, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Celebration of cruelty
This song has always bothered me for a variety of reasons, one of which is that it glorifies the concept of mocking and ostracising those who are different until they can be useful. Why did Santa (who was supposed to be an arbiter of morality) let this state of affairs continue until such time as he needed Rudolph's help? Is this not a tacit approval of the other reindeer's cruelty and xenophobia? If that Christmas eve had not been foggy, wouldn't Rudolph's perpetual torment have continued?

This is supposed to be a children's song. What kind of lesson does it teach?


 * No one said the other reindeer were justified in mocking Rudolph. The song refers to him, when he is mocked, as "poor Rudolph," indicating the reader/listeners sympathies should lie with him and not the other reindeer. It is never stated that Santa allowed the teasing or even that he was aware of it.
 * I too know who's naughty and nice, but I am not therefore an arbiter of morality. --Wetman 12:48, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * This is hilarious. --Akutenshi 12:37, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the moral of the movie (not the song) was "You have to believe what others want you to believe" which is bad. (Especially for Jewish/Buddist/any other religion children who have Christian friends.)

For a long time I have felt that Rudolph is a Jewish symbol. (His two creators are Jewish.) Bear in mind that the story and song appeared when Hitler was riding high and when anti-semitism was all too commmon in the U.S.. Rudolph very much embodies the fate of Jews throughout much of history: despised and rejected except when they happened to be useful.Alloco1 16:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with the original poster. I found this wiki page while googling for the very same thing. Being one of the most popular songs during Christmas, it teaches kids that you shouldn't care for someone unless they are useful. Apparently they called him names until he was useful, then they loved him. I guess the song creators could've did this on purpose for their own agenda, but this song currently has always bothered me EVERY time I hear it (Which is a lot as of right now). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.136.86 (talk) 22:33, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The moral of the story is the same as the Ugly Duckling. Or to quote Kung Fu (TV series) "Do not despise the serpent for having no horns for who is to saw one day he might not become  a dragon?"  Rich Farmbrough, 00:58, 25 July 2010 (UTC).

Versions
Does the inclusion of the entire "Children's Version" of this song transfer any truly encyclopedia-worthy information (like a lightbulb)? --Wetman 12:48, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Well...a lot of people are familiar with it and it doesn't take up much space.

English people are generally not familiar with it. I found it interesting.

Do you know who sings an instrumental version of this song, played with organs and synthesizers, the beat was a slow dixie, it was in the 80's, I once had a cassette of it, it's was borrowed, I don't know if it was 85 or 89, either Pippi, Ali Pahappahooey, Matilda Wormwood, Quigley's Village, do you have that instrumental version played with organs on a slow dixie from the 80's? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.89.184.77 (talk) 04:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Is this part necessary?
I agree that the children's version should be removed, as should the mockery... if people agree, I think we should get rid of them both.
 * It's not necessary. What the children sing (and change) in a school; what the Simpsons do to it, etc, is part of history and culture, but is has no business being in this article.  This article is about A) the song by Johnny Marks, and B) the character of Rudolph.  Carajou 15:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm, I agree. I already commented on how there were too many examples in the "humorous" version. Maybe we should just remove it altogether. We can make reference to how extra lyrics are often added humorously and how in popular culture the lyrics are often changed without having to give such long examples. --Merond e 10:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I suggest resotoring some of the parody material; I added a note on why Rudolph is of interest to folklorists that may make the relevance of such material clearer. DavidOaks 16:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Longest running TV special

 * CBS now airs it each year, making it the longest running TV special.

This superlative is doubtful. Does anyone have any source? -- Perfecto 06:31, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Rudolph the Red-nosed Roo
The picture of the roo is funny, but I don't think it's really appropriate for the article. But it's cool enough that I'm moving it here for posterity. Merry Christmas! -- Hongooi 16:05, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Haven't found an original picture of Rudolph the red nose reindeer. The Roo does have a slight resemblence.  I think the picture should stay until some

one finds and post an original picture of the real Rudolph....Merry Christmas to You too!...,,,,Ariele 17:06, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Too Many Examples in the Song
In the song section in the second song (the humorous lyrics), people keep coming along and adding their favorite version. There are starting to be too many. The article says, "Sample lyrics follow...." We don't need all these examples. We just need a few common ones to demonstrate how humorous lyrics are added. --Merond e 10:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems to me the only version of the song in the article now (the "Politically Correct" one) is totally off point and not among the most well-known versions. I would think the traditional variations would be much more germane to the history of the character as portrayed in song. I see that the song isn't yet in the public domain, though, so I suppose that's why the original lyrics aren't directly in the article. But even though the PC version is slightly different than the original song, doesn't copyright still apply? I would think so. If not, I'd still say it's a very poor version to have as an example of the song, especially since it's the only one actually visible in the text of article. Also, there are barely over 1,000 Google hits for anything slightly relating to this version of the song, and even ones that are songs are not all even anything like this one. I don't see how such a minor blip merits entry in an encyclopedia, especially when there is only an easily missable mention of the more traditional variations. Bluela 01:33, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

New Rudolph Picture
I suggest that we replace this picture at the top of the page. A reindeer with an overly red dot on its nose is kind of cheap and untidy. Could we change this?Ohyeh 14:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and it has been done. Since DVD covers are authorized, why not an image of the Rudolph familiar to audiences world-wide? Carajou 03:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, too. Of course, the DVD cover of the original TV classic is much better than the other picture was. :-) -- Cornelia -etc. 16:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio!
The "origins" section is an exact copy of the Snopes article on Rudolph! It needs to be fixed--we here at Wikipedia don't endorse copyright infringement! &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 18:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The song lyrics were also copyright infringement (this song is not in the public domain). I've removed both the Snopes copyvio and the lyrics. — Amcaja 09:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I did not vandalize this article
I wish to give notice that I did not vandalize this article; however, I presented what other editors have put there more tastefully. I resent the accusation that I am a vandal here.--Drboisclair 19:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC) I have to take a step back here because a recent anonymous editor who edited this article is the source of the reference to porn and "gay-porn" in this article, which definitely is vandalism. I was going to do the same thing as User:Group29 has done, but I thought that there was support for the material that the anonymous editor put in there. I did put a indicator in there for there to be some support for the "gay-porn" reference. This is interesting. Perhaps I will have to watch the 1944 cartoon again to see if there is some substance to this characterization. This cartoon is presented in inexpensive holiday DVDs.--Drboisclair 19:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Nose?
Why are Rudolph and the other reindeer are always depicted as white-tailed deer (which have a distinct nose, like a dog or a cat) instead of proper reindeer (which have blunt fuzzy antlers, not pointy thin ones, and no 'nose' to speak of, like a cow or a horse)? I mean, obviously you can't be red-nosed if all you have is nostrils on a muzzle, but are there that many people ignorant of the basic look of Santa's pack animals? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.73.48.43 (talk) 05:18, 29 December 2006 (UTC).


 * Because real reindeer aren't cute. So they went with a version that is more pleasing to the eye.  Lighthope 06:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah but how the heck did he get the stupid red nose? Did his dad have an affair with another reindeer or is the kid mentally ill??To my opinion, I think that his dad had an affair with the other female reindeers.

Feature-Length Film Section
It seems to me that the section regarding the feature-length film version's plot is needlessly long and in-depth. Couldn't it be condensed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.177.70.172 (talk) 19:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Destiny Child bonus CD Picture
I'm not sure why the best picture found for the DvD cover was one that includes a destiny child bonus cd. Goolge shows a bunch without the commercial banner on them. I would think one of those folks would be glad to let you use their pic... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.230.237.108 (talk) 07:16, 15 November 2007 (UTC) Agreed--66.216.249.229 (talk) 02:33, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

2 Articles
Shouldn't there be articles for the fictional character and the book/movie? FogDevil (talk) 16:14, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Synopsis?
I noticed there's a conspicuous lack of summary of plot on this page. Is the story so simple that a synopsis would violate copyrights? Or am I just not seeing it?

-20:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Movie page
see could anyone make a page for "rudolph the red nosed reindeer the movie" please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.18.213 (talk) 00:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I took that out of the Rudolph article, because it was excessively long and inappropriate for the main article. If you can find information about the movie that relates to things in the real world (reviews, ratings, grosses, etc), we can add part of it back to an article about the movie. Don't worry, your work is still stored on Wikipedia. If you can find the rest, I will help make the article about the movie out of your work.Kww (talk) 00:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Proposed merger
Over and above the other article being just a repetition of the lyrics, which might not even be legal, there is no particular indication of notability there. I have to say that the useful content there could easily be moved into here. If, somewhow, the lyrics are public domain, they could be moved to WikiSource. But I definitely support the merger. John Carter (talk) 02:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

reindeer skin diseases
I Googled all over the place. But was never able to find info on the REAL inspiration for Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Everybody said that it was invented by somebody named May for some huge department store, and that the red nose represents how Rudolph was a pariah to the other reindeer, an outcast. True enough. But no mention was made of a rare, but real, skin disease that reindeer get which causes the deer's nose to acquire a red tint. The other deer instinctively shun this "red-nosed" reindeer because it is contagious. I was hoping to find the name of the skin disease and which organism causes it. Instead, all I found was a lot of nonsense about how a certain tv show made a lot of money for some conglomerate etc, etc. Internet! You have finally failed me. John Raguso —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnraguso (talk • contribs) 23:09, 4 December 2009 (UTC) Rudolfs original name was Rolo

Split "song" section into separate article
It appears (to me) that the song, "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" is notable enough on its own to warrant a separate Wikipedia article. "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (song)". The song article could start with something like,
 * "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer" is a popular Christmas song written by Johnny Marks based on the original story Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer published in 1939 and written by Marks' brother-in-law, Robert L. May.  ..."

A short summary of the song info could be retained in this (story) article with a " main article: "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (song)"  " template inserted after the "Song" section heading. I'd be happy to attempt this split if feedback is mostly positive. Any thoughts, comments? Pugetbill (talk) 00:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Late response, but I say go for it. It doesn't look like anyone has come here to object in the past month, and it seems there is a good amount of information, as well as information in the song section that can be expanded. Mordecairule 18:36, 9 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mordecairule (talk • contribs)

Another late response: I wouldn't mind if this section was broken out into its own article, as long as there's a link to the child article from the parent article. Since the list has gotten longer (partly due to yours truly, who added a bevy of cover versions within the last year), I also suggest that the versions of the song that made it on to music trade publication charts (like Billboard) be separated from the non-charted, yet noteworthy versions. --Sliv812 (talk) 03:33, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Agree. Split the song off into a seperate article. There's plenty of material for it. Mtminchi08 (talk) 03:11, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Completely AGREE. I was stunned to do a search today and NOT find a separate article for the song. Medleystudios72 (talk) 15:08, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I also agree that this should be split. I wasn't even aware of the original story and believe the song is (now) better known than the original story. I say split! Zasurus (talk) 15:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay, now that we seem to have reached consensus that a separate article on the song is warranted, is there an efficient way to split the song content off to a separate article without requiring approval from the wikipedia reviewers? I'm only familiar with the process of creating a new article. --Sliv812 (talk) 23:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I completly agree. Be it as it may, the song is more famous than anything else! - Lanejlubell 08:32, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The consensus seems strong so today, I attempted the split and created the new article Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (song). I wasn't sure whether to leave the hyphen in the song title (ASCAP lists the title without a hyphen between 'Red' and 'Nosed') but the hyphen seemed (to me) to fit better and is consistent with the title of this article so... I kept it.  I tried to follow the instructions at Splitting and if I have introduced any errors, my apologies.  But I trust other wikipedia editors will catch and correct any mistakes I may have introduced in this split.
 * Pugetbill (talk) 16:53, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for creating the new article...it looks great! Mtminchi08 (talk) 04:54, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Jack Johnson Version
The article tells the reader "In 2008, Jack Johnson recorded this song for a Christmas album by his record label, This Warm December: Brushfire Holiday Volume 1." - actually the Jack Johnson version of the song has already been released in 2002 on a sampler called "Maybe this Christmas", so is is definitely not "recorded for" the named 2008-record. --80.138.169.184 (talk) 19:43, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I've modified this entry based on your input. Please review the updated article, and feel free to provide additional comments if necessary.  Thanks for the catch!  --Sliv812 (talk) 04:00, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that is a very good point — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.61.211 (talk) 19:02, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Gender
Since male Reindeer Rangifer tarandus shed their antlers at this time of year, I think Rudolph must be really a she.


 * Rudolph is a boys' name and the song refers to Rudolph as "him."
 * Castrated male reindeer do not shed their antlers during winter. I do not believe any media exists wherein Rudolph's genitalia is exposed, so this seems like a plausible reconciliation.


 * Per Talk page guidelines and Signatures, please sign posts with four tildes (~). Thanks Mtminchi08 (talk) 21:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism Again
Someone keeps changing parts of it to rediculous (and wrong) things like the owner of the song is "fufu the pink bunny". If you did that, don't. Thats a stupid thing to do, to corrupt the knowledge of a worldwide information resource.


 * I've seen some vandalism over the first paragraph that somebody did until it was finally cleaned up. If any vandalism happens again, give the user a strict policy to stop the vandalism over whatever article they change some information on, add, or delete, or perhaps at least use a lock which allows only certain users to edit. --PJ Pete 12-8-'07


 * Per Talk page guidelines and Signatures, please sign posts with four tildes (~). Thanks Mtminchi08 (talk) 21:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

History
Not much history in this artical see http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/rudolph.asp


 * Per Talk page guidelines and Signatures, please sign posts with four tildes (~). Thanks Mtminchi08 (talk) 21:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Derivative Children's song
I'm not sure if this is the appropriate space for this but there is an alternate set of lyrics to the same tune that I learned in grade school in the mid-1960s. Khrushchev the bald-headed Russian Had a very shiny head And if you ever saw it It would make you ... ... dead All of the other Russians Used to laugh and call him names They never let poor Khrushchev Join in any Russian games Then one foggy Friday night Johnson came to say "Khrushchev with your head so bright Won't you guide my satellite?" Then all the other Russians Laughed and shouted out with glee "Khrushchev the bald-headed Russian You'll go down in history!"


 * Per Talk page guidelines and Signatures, please sign posts with four tildes (~). Thanks Mtminchi08 (talk) 21:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Archive of older posts on the talk page
As several of the posts on this page are rather old, it would be good to move them to an archive page. Everything would still be available for viewing but it would "clean up" the talk page for current topics. Mtminchi08 (talk) 20:31, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I added the MiszaBot/Archive to this page as it has been over a month with no objections to the archiving suggestion. Mtminchi08 (talk) 05:07, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Adding 2 newspaper references
Yes, those dates are correct; I really did keep those newspaper articles for citations and the comment on the red nose revulsion MusicScienceGuy (talk) 05:29, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Petteri Punakuono
The article was tagged with a stale merge tag since November 2009 and a month ago, was tagged with a deletion proposal tag, which was removed after one week by a user who left no explanation in the edit comment or talk page for the removal of the tag. The article was created in 2006, and over the course of six years, the only content of the article was the song lyrics to a Finnish song and a literal English translation. There's was a link to a Finnish site, which is now a 404 not found error. Since Wikipedia is not a song lyrics database, I think the best solution is to redirect the article's title to this page, since the overall topic is similar (although the song lyrics themselves are quite different. Nonetheless, it makes zero sense to keep an article containing only song lyrics and no cultural significance or other explanation of the origins of the song. WTF? (talk) 13:54, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Doctor Who
The link to the preview clip confirms the character's presence in the episode, but once it airs the episode itself can be cited as the source. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 16:26, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Jacob Griffith
In what Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer story where someone named Jacob Griffith voiced the character? 172.58.24.86 (talk) 17:31, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Johnny Marks's 1949 song
Hello. Would Johnny Marks's 1949 song "Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer" not be included in the "Music" section of this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halteres (talk • contribs) 11:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

PC Horsefeathers
'Ronald D. Lankford, Jr., described Rudolph's story as "the fantasy story made to order for American children: each child has the need to express and receive approval for his or her individuality and/or special qualities. Rudolph's story embodies the American Dream for the child, written large because of the cultural significance of Christmas."

Oh please. Do the obiter dicta of yet another postmodern necromancer really deserve space here ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:5C2B:C4FE:B938:7C4F (talk) 19:54, 20 December 2020 (UTC)