Talk:Rudolph van Veen

Rudolph van Veen
Good news. Administrator who deleted the article on Rudolph van Veen approved its creation. I will create it now. Please join me. (remember to read WP:BLP). Do you know how to add his picture?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 06:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * that is great. can you give me link for this WP:BLP please? and i will be on to help. I know how to replace pictures or set them in an already created "box" if i may call it that way, but otherwise i dont; however i consider rudolphs picture from dutch article excellent. (Правичност (talk) 01:41, 16 April 2013 (UTC))
 * WP:BLP. If you prefer Dutch picture then feel free to replace the existing one. I propose you to first read WP:BLP and then to start expanding the article. Please let me know if I can help.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:28, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Ty, oh i just realised the picture is same on both articles anyway, so its good. (Правичност (talk) 21:26, 16 April 2013 (UTC))
 * OK. Now you can expand the article. Why don't you try to find the source for his year of birth.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have done some expansions with a help of this website http://www.24kitchen.nl/chefs/rudolph-van-veen, too bad i couldnt find it in english though, was quite hard to translate from dutch. You can check if its ok by now. (Правичност (talk) 22:42, 16 April 2013 (UTC))
 * Very good. I have several remarks:
 * This discussion deals with the article and now when this article is created should be led on the article talkpage so I will move it there.
 * You used 24hours kitchen as source. That source is closely connected to the subject and somebody can even consider it wp:sps. I think that it is better to find some other sources about him.
 * You used website as source. In that case I can recommend you to use Template:Cite web which will contain all necessary parameters for citation.
 * "Do not use a flag template." says Template:Infobox person for nationality (and many other) section.
 * Section title is "Early life" (the time when someone is a child) and it deals with Rudolf when he was 27.
 * The tone of the text you wrote shows that it was written against the promotional text on 24kitchen website ("...already knew as a little boy that he wanted to be a cook"... "from that moment he was determined to be a Master chef"). I think it does not completely follow wp:blp which requests "a dispassionate tone, avoiding both understatement and overstatement". Nobody knows what he knew as a little boy about his future career and nobody knows what was the moment when he became determined to be something and what.
 * Any thoughts? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 06:54, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Ok, i have changed problems under 3,4 and 5. But regarding the "tone" you mentioned and the website itself... I have once read somewhere i cant remember - his own statement, how he wanted to become a cook already as a child when he helped his mother in the kitchen... so i think this profile on 24kithcen is actually based on his own statements... While talking about other sources, i had problems finding those (that would be reliable). When i will have time i will explore for more and furtherly expand the artile, in meanwhile you can help out doing so when you manage to. (Правичност (talk) 16:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC))
 * You did not use cite web template with second reference. If he himself said something that could not be used as source per WP:SPS. Regarding the sources, the situation is simple: no sources - no article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:37, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hope its okay now... Well i did hear or read something like that myself, but i cant claim it for this webpage, since that isnt written anywhere... i found the exact bio profile for Rudolph also on this page: http://www.houseoftalent.nl/dt_catalog/rudolph-van-veen/. (Правичност (talk) 20:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC))
 * Yes, you now have both citations properly done. Re house of talent website I think it is another WP:SELFSOURCE because it is a company for the management of TV personalities and it looks like Rudolf is their client. Per Identifying reliable sources (I suggest you to read it) "Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, especially in articles about themselves, without the requirement that they be published experts in the field, so long as:.." That means that you can use both 24kitchen or house of talent websites, though I would prefer more neutral sources whenever possible.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:24, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Allright will do. I hope better sources will be available too. (Правичност (talk) 22:40, 17 April 2013 (UTC)).
 * Maybe you can continue with addition of the Bibliography section and list of the books he wrote.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 08:07, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ok i managed to do so, hope its allright (i used specific citation for google books as i saw in rules), i only didnt put one book - which was kinda weird having same name as already existing one and having two publisher dates 2003 and 2005, so i just jumped it over, other 9 are all intact. took me quite a while. (Правичност (talk) 00:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC))
 * Good job.
 * Its normal that it takes more time at the beginning. There is a very helpful time-saving tool: Wikipedia citation tool for Google Books. You just search Google Books for Rudolph van Veen and use this tool to make citations.
 * Books sometimes have more editions and more publishers. If it is the same work then the best way is to add the latest edition with information about the original date of publishing within citation template.
 * Where was he born? Where does he live? What do you think about adding a section with TV shows he participated at? Has he been awarded with more awards?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:09, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I would also like to find that kind of data and hopefully will. I think we could add a section with TV shows, i was thinking already about it and adding imdb as a source... what do you think would that do? (Правичност (talk) 00:32, 20 April 2013 (UTC))
 * As an external link: Generally yes. As a reliable source:  Generally no.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:04, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello again Antidiskriminator... i must say ive had quite alot of trouble finding biographical sources about Rudolph, seemed like they almost dont exist (the ones that wouldnt include interviews, self-telled stories from him, but ive gotten an information he is going to host in Serbian night show "Veče sa Ivanom Ivanovićem" this friday, maybe after that something more would be released about him... otherwise idk what we should do, should we just use the 24Kitchen source, because its the most reliable from all... here are some links i found but idk how much helpful they could be: http://www.verjaardagsregister.com/?register=rudolph_van_veen_1727

http://www.oklagija.rs/sl/poznati-kuvari/item/552-rudolph-van-veen

http://tracara.com/tv-kuvar-rudolph-van-veen-dobio-sina/

http://www.wtf.nl/spotlight/7989/rudolph-van-veen-1967.html

what should we do? (Правичност (talk) 23:45, 29 April 2013 (UTC))
 * I am at holiday now and don't have regular access to internet. I will reply to you in a couple of days.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:29, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

allrighty, enjoy (Правичност (talk) 23:22, 30 April 2013 (UTC))
 * I checked the sources you presented and I think that none of them are very reliable. Maybe we should be more persistent to find more reliable sources? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 13:57, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

I guess... eventough not much can be found. but i still think the 24 Kitchen is the best source considering biography. (Правичност (talk) 20:16, 5 May 2013 (UTC))
 * OK. I guess it can be ok to use 24 Kitchen, carefully avoiding promotional tone. Btw, the article has about 40 views per day, which is quite high number.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:23, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

After first 2 or 3 pages on Google its hardly to even find anything connected to Rudolph; i guess he is still a "fresh Star", so yes ... ok that sounds great i will get down with translating and i will wathc the tone to be closer to neutrality. (Правичност (talk) 22:56, 10 May 2013 (UTC))
 * Greetings Anti, just to inform you that i have redirected and edited whole career text from 24kitchen (Правичност (talk) 14:19, 22 June 2013 (UTC))
 * Good job! "people can inhale Rudpolh`s shares of both knowledge and passion for sweet and savory recipes. Rudolph is sure to know how eye-catching and mouth-watering delicacies can conjure, whether it is bread, pie or cake for instance." I think this two sentences could be maybe slightly more encyclopedic?
 * Until Rudolph becomes less "fresh star" what about cooperating in some other article? Have you seen this post?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:07, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! Ive corrected the two sentences, hopefully in a good way. Anyways i havent seen this, but im aware of Serbia project... i must say i have already edited and imporved some serbian articles before.. ive written some intro words on kingdom of Yugoslavia and created the 1930 fifa world cup theme on it, ive also aded some of the info on 1930 fifa world cup article.. and did minor edits on several other articles... so i may participate. i just have slight problem with time as you can see. (Правичност (talk) 20:25, 22 June 2013 (UTC))

Copy Editing
I have begun editing the language to make it sound more natural (to a native English speaker). I don't intend to change the meaning of the sentences if I can help it. There are a few sentences that confuse me a bit. The first is "National and international cooking competitions from his schooldays were a challenge for Rudolph to surpass." Did you mean to simply say that Rudolph has competed in national and international cooking competitions since his school days? Hfhudson (talk) 02:04, 26 January 2014 (UTC)