Talk:Rue de la Loi

Pioneering
So I'm the first one here! This being an English-language encyclopaedia, I presume there have not been too many Belgians on here contributing to the article. I am on Rue de la Loi right now and have a unique perspective (and some great photos) so I wouldn't mind working on the article a little here and there.

Rue de la Loi is an important street for the fact that it is Brussels' busiest, and for the institutions that reside along its sides. The Council of the European Union, the Office of the Prime Minister, the Belgian Parliament, the European Commission, the Church of Scientology Human Rights Office, the Crowne Plaza Hotel, the International Press Centre - to name but a few.

If anyone has any suggestions or feedback, or indeed would like to upload any original media, let's discuss it here and give this street an article that will be interesting to an international audience.

(Sbutler (talk))

Beginning/end
I just switched beginning and end of the street in the article. It seems logical that a street begins at number 1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carpeteer (talk • contribs) 16:24, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Rename article?
We could rename this article Law Street, as both the French and Dutch name mean the same. One shouldn't have slashes in article titles when it can be avoided. (Google hits) - SSJ ☎ 14:59, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, the 600-odd hits for that title (which I've never heard anyone use) are tiny compared with the 70,000 hits for brussels "Wetstraat" and the 190,000 for brussels "Rue de la Loi". The double name isn't ideal, but either of its variants are more widely used and recognisable than the English translation. --David Edgar (talk) 16:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * brussels "Rue de la Loi" -flickr -wikipedia (english language): 99,000
 * brussels Wetstraat -flickr -wikipedia (english language): 24,800
 * brussels "street of law" OR "law street" OR "law road" OR "road of law" -wikipedia -flickr (english language): 1,490
 * I think it should either be Law Street or Rue de la Loi. - SSJ ☎ 16:26, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No one calls it Law Street, it would be a bit random to put that name up considering how frequent Rue de la Loi is used. Which is also (along with the Francophone dominance in Brussels) why if we use one name it should be Rue de la Loi rather than Wetstraat. However, Brussels is bilingual and the Flemish will be on our backs if we change it. The current title is a good compromise unless we get some kind of thumbs up from the Belgian WikiProject.- J.Logan`t : 17:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

French only
Haha, I just took a look in the streets of brussels category, none of the other articles use both French and Dutch in the title! They're all French, fantastic! So, considering RdlL is far more common, Brussels is majority French and we really shouldn't have '/' in the title, I'm renaming this article to French only (normally I'd wait for feedback, but there are so few people watching this that I'll have forgotten about it by the time someone replies). However, note on the last edit, Dutch is usually put before the French in these articles because D is earlier in the alphabet than F. Check the other Belgian articles. Also, I think after first usage we can just use French rather than repeating both.- J.Logan`t : 11:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

(Damn, have to request an Admin to do it as RdlL exists. Time for feedback first then.- J.Logan`t : 11:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC))


 * I don't see why the naming of a few categories would give us a fresh and undisputable justification for having French-only, as opposed to what the situation was last time this was discussed. You said that only a consensus would be good enough, and we don't know whether the naming of these categories was based on any consensus.


 * But I think the fact that Rue de la Loi is by far the most used name for the street has always been a sufficient reason for renaming the article. - SSJ ☎ 18:18, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually I was more going at the presumed policy of using both, hence me referring to the Belgian wikiproject. Considering all articles in the streets category use French only I presume that project has taken a pro-French or no policy line on the matter. Don't you think the current title is a tad Clumbersome? It is clear usage in Brussels is heavily orientated towards French, if there is ever one language presented (which in every day usage appears common) it is French, never Dutch.- J.Logan`t : 20:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, alright I see. So I guess we could rename the article now. Let's hope a Flemish maniac edit warrior doesn't show up. - SSJ ☎ 20:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Wetstraat/Rue de la Loi → Rue de la Loi &mdash; See reasoning above, standard practice is for just one language, the English isn't used and the French is by far more dominant than Flemish.- J.Logan`t : 13:58, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * So French is more important than Flemish. Is that what you saying? You're a racist you kwow that!!!!!!


 * Support, anything is better than these double names, and we shouldn't invent translated names like Law Street if they're not used in real life. See also the related discussion Talk:Brussels-Capital Region/NamingArchive3 about municipalities in the Brussels capital region. Same for all those silly metro station article titles like Saint Catherine/Sint Katelijne metro station. Markussep Talk 12:17, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅. Jafeluv (talk) 23:02, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks.- J.Logan`t : 08:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose. Brussels is BILINGUAL. Unlike some francophones may wish.


 * This street plays a major role in Belgian politics. The majority of the Belgians is Dutch speaking so it's offending that this page has only a Franch name. The Duch name (which is the ORIGNIAL BTW) must at least be mentioned.--Westermarck (talk) 13:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The Dutch name is mentioned, in the first line and in the infobox. We have had this discussion for several similar cases, such as the municipalities of Brussels capital region and of South Tyrol. For article titles, English wikipedia uses the name the average English-speaking reader would expect. Bi- or trilingual names are not the solution, see WP:NCGN and WP:UE. This has nothing to do with bias or hurting people's feelings. Markussep Talk 14:47, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If both the article title and the first name in the line of the introduction is the French name than Wikipedia in not neutral. Like I said, French and Dutch share are equily official. I understand that French is more dominant in English useage. So I have no problems that this article name is the French one. BUT is such a case you must put the Dutch name first in the introduction in order to be neutral.
 * Agree. Although I understand Westermarck's concerns, he has always had a bit of an offensive editing style. --Roofbird (talk) 14:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you aspect when nobody respects the position of the Flemish in Brussels AND the official situation. If I may believe the English Wikipedia Dutch is only a second hand language in Brussels although at daytime it is the most used language (like I said: half of the Flemish people work in Brussels).--Westermarck (talk) 14:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Relax, please. Let's find some people to find a consensus instead. Please stop screaming, you're not advancing the "Flemish cause" here. --Roofbird (talk) 15:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Support, although I'm a fierce supporter of neutral language policy, in some cases it becomes ridiculous. "Rue de la Loi" has entered English usage, "Wetstraat" has not. Since wikipedia prefers single titles, it should be "Rue de la Loi". As a compensation (widely used in Brussels articles), Dutch comes first in the first line. --Roofbird (talk) 14:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There is quite some edit warring about the names order (Dutch first, French first). Some time ago, a guideline has been proposed at WikiProject Belgium/Brussels naming conventions, maybe it should be discussed. Markussep Talk 14:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Just as the naming conventions for municipalities have ended edit warring on titles, we should now do the same for titles of other things (such as streets, institutions...) and usage in the first line, the infobox and throughout the article. How can we revive that discussion? --Roofbird (talk) 14:53, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I suppose Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Belgium, and announce the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names) or vice versa. Markussep Talk 15:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Can people not turn this into a political debate. Firstly, it is ridiculous to have to list both as the article name regardless of the insane structure of Belgium, for practical reasons we should have one, as is done on most other articles with this issue. Then in the case of which one; practically speaking Rue de la Loi, as has been mentioned above, has far superior English usage and French speakers far outnumber Dutch. It is not being excluded from the article, it should come first (as Dutch comes before French in the alphabet) and it is very visible. I don't see why we should have to compromise the efficiency and logic of a global encyclopaedia to satisfy the political demands of a small minority. This precedent has been established, and there is no damaging to the Dutch language. I notice on the French and Dutch wikipedias they haven't doubled up their article names to be fair to both sides? No, because they only need one and they choose the one most dominant in their language, as we should (and don't anyone dare make the ridiculous "Law Street" suggestion).- J.Logan`t : 15:39, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

WP:PLACE is clear on this problem. --83.170.104.140 (talk) 16:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * so WP policy is clearly towards the last change to French only. Thanks for that.- J.Logan`t : 17:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No need to dash so hard on Dutch or Belgian politics though, JLogan. Please also express your opinion on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Belgium/Brussels naming conventions, just so the community has something to hold on to in future when people move pages or reverse language order. The more people have agreed on the proposed convention, the more authority it will have. --Roofbird (talk) 18:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, can't help despairing at Belgian politics, been living here only a few months and I just find the whole thing rather fruitless and pathetic when you see that the only other small countries that are as remotely comparable are those that have been through near genocidal conflicts. So I get a tad pissed off when it is dragged onto Wikipedia as well.- J.Logan`t : 18:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ach ja, writing about Belgium goes along with its domestic quarrels. Let's have a positive attitude and try to live in peace (and that does not only go for wikipedia). Policies and guidelines do a great job (after all, a genocide is still fiction...). Cheers, --Roofbird (talk) 18:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose: (3.5 years later...) The Wetstraat, or Rue de la Loi, should be in both languages. Complying into the French name is complying with forgetting history as well as to the pain of the Dutch language-speakers, who have virtually lost most of Brussels in the past two centuries to the French-speaking community.--OPolkruikenz (talk) 18:29, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

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