Talk:Rufus W. Peckham

Bot-created subpage
A temporary subpage at User:Polbot/fjc/Rufus Wheeler Peckham was automatically created by a perl script, based on this article at the Biographical Directory of Federal Judges. The subpage should either be merged into this article, or moved and disambiguated. Polbot (talk) 18:17, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Wrong name
Name that jurist... This one was named Rufus William Peckham, not Rufus Wheeler Peckham, as shown by several references on the page, and so the page needs to be re-named.Sunny Clark (talk) 04:24, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Or, we have a conundrum... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Rufus_Wheeler_Peckham_cph.3b30513.jpg Sunny Clark (talk) 04:46, 29 November 2018 (UTC)


 * More "William" references:


 * 1) https://archive.org/details/listofmembersjan00soci/page/10
 * 2) https://archive.org/details/brewstergenealog_22jone/page/n217
 * 3) https://archive.org/details/NewYorkStateMenBiographicStudiesAn/page/n15
 * 4) https://books.google.com/books?id=v_27AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA118
 * 5) https://books.google.com/books?id=sDUtAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA430
 * 6) https://books.google.com/books?id=hlCb3BCZqvkC&pg=PA328 Sunny Clark (talk) 05:18, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * We can note the discrepancy in a footnote, that some old sources misidentify his middle name as "William" (probably an assumption based on just the initial W.), but more authoritative (and more recent) sources use Wheeler, such as Encyclopedia Brittanica, the Federal Judiciary Center, the Historical Society of the New York Courts, and the Supreme Court's own official site, and the Library of Congress, Courts and Lawyers of New York: A History, 1609-1925, American National Biography (an Oxford University Press publication), The Supreme Court Justices: Illustrated Biographies, 1789-2012, among others. I don't see any sources that should be given remotely comparable weight that use "William", and even if we're just going to go on quantity the numbers aren't even close. postdlf (talk) 05:22, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Offline sources also include Scott Horton, Rufus Wheeler Peckham, Jr., in Melvin I. Urofsky, ed., Biographical Encyclopedia of the Supreme Court (2006), 395-398; Megan W. Benett, Rufus Wheeler Peckham, Jr., in Albert M. Rosenblatt, ed., The Judges of the New York Court of Appeals: A Biographical History (2007), 233-238 (cited in Rufus W. Peckham and Economic Liberty, 62 Vand. L. Rev. 591 (2009), by James W. Ely, Jr.). postdlf (talk) 05:30, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm prone to believe that SCOTUS knows the correct names of its former members. — howcheng  {chat} 18:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Contemporary sources should outweigh modern ones. My impression is that it is quite possible that mistakes were made, then copied and adopted over time, which is very common to genealogy. "Wheeler", being his father's middle name, is more likely to have been assumed than "William", as has been suggested. Many provided sources are authoritative, and the issue needs further research. More contemporary sources:


 * 1) https://archive.org/details/annualcommenceme01colu/page/n225 → Q: What are the chances of his Fellows at Columbia University getting it wrong when conferring his Honorary J.D. in 1901? A: Much lower than the chances of his name being morphed into his father's name, over time.
 * 2) https://books.google.com/books?id=vz8jAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA326&lpg=PA326 → Would Columbia get it wrong again, in print?
 * 3) https://books.google.com/books?id=T7smAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA764 → I seriously doubt that Columbia University got it wrong a third time, in 1912.
 * 4) https://newspaperarchive.com/new-york-times-jun-13-1901-p-5/  → The contemporary press reported him as either "Rufus W." or "Rufus William", the latter as seen in the third column under "The Honorary Degrees".
 * 5) https://archive.org/details/ancestorsdescend00gard/page/33 →According to his cousin (as with previous sources listed above).


 * Facts should be of singular interest, so please give up the easy dismissals and investigate more thoroughly, keeping in mind that, to any trained researcher, authoritative contemporary sources tend to outweigh modern sources, which often rewrite history, either deliberately, or, as seems likely in this case, by accident. If in doubt of such, check out my 2017 work on the pages for, in example, Nicolas Denys and Versailles, Louisiana, where many false statements were long held true on WP, some genealogical, others simply historical. I may be wrong, but I may be right. The answer is less simple than some may think.Sunny Clark (talk) 20:32, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * To further add to the confusion, The New International Year Book (1910) says that the father name is William and the son is Wheeler (this appears to be the only source that does that, though, so we can probably disregard it). However, after doing more research, I'm now leaning towards 's assertion. Another source for "William" is the obituary that's in the external links in this article, and also curious is the last sentence, where his son is named as "Rufus Wheeler Jr." If Justice Peckham's middle name is really Wheeler, then wouldn't his son be Rufus Wheeler Peckham III?
 * That being said, WP:V and WP:NOR are what we have to adhere to, and the fact that the SCOTUS website itself says Wheeler is a big hurdle to overcome. I propose then that we move this article to Rufus W. Peckham (since there is no question about the middle initial), with a big footnote that states modern sources give his middle name as Wheeler but sources from his time say it's William. If the article declares his middle name to be unequivocally William, that would be original research (until you have a source that says it's really William and that Wheeler is a mistake). — howcheng  {chat} 21:37, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Why didn't I think of that... great idea, Sunny Clark (talk) 23:28, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Let's make sure is on board first. — howcheng   {chat} 03:50, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * In some families that used “Sr.”, “Jr.”, and “III” the custom was for people to “move up” or be “promoted” following a death, so that “John Jr.” would become “John Sr.” and so forth. See Suffix (name). As it happens, there is a Rufus W. Peckham Jr. currently licensed to practice law in Washington, D.C. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:15, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

The Justice’s father was Rufus Wheeler Peckham Sr. The Justice, during his father’s lifetine, was Rufus W. Peckham Jr. His son was also Rufus Wheeler Peckham Jr. Clearly this is a succession of descendents using the same name. Attorney General Wickersham, in the memorial resolutions presented in open court and reprinted in the United States Reports, gives the name as Rufus Wheeler, and the printed proceedings are titled Rufus Wheeler. The New York State Bar Association proceedings also say Rufus Wheeler. It’s pretty clear that was his name. Nevertheless, I agree with moving the article to “Rufus W. Peckham,” as it’s also apparent that during his lifetime, his middle name was rarely if ever used. Newyorkbrad (talk) 04:23, 30 November 2018 (UTC)


 * This Peckham had not only a father and son by the name "Rufus Wheeler Peckham", but also his father had a brother of the same name, born 20 years before him, who'd died young. One might also see him reported as "Rufus William Peckham" in the Proceedings of the Washington State Bar Association in 1901; yet, I would think that birth and baptismal certificates are more definitive for his true name. Perhaps one of you Admins has access to Ancestry, so quite possibly to such documents? I suppose that might constitute original research, though, even if such documents are previously located and uploaded there to see. Nonetheless, even his passport application states Rufus W. Peckham, and that appears to be how he was most typically known in his lifetime. (Incidentally, WorldCat lists works by or about all three generations sharing the name with this Peckham's birth and death dates, probably due to the name confusion, an indication that it would likely be helpful to clarity and general knowledge to make the shift to "W" from Wheeler in this case. ) Sunny Clark (talk) 17:16, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Postscript: Hiram Ulysses Grant only became Ulysses S. Grant by error when he was nominated to West Point; he adopted the name rather than lose his place, and later became the 18th U.S. president under the new name, with no legal name change. After graduating, "Grant tried to rectify the problem but his efforts to have the S excised from West Point records proved fruitless, so he resigned himself to signing his name that way." Sunny Clark (talk) 18:55, 15 January 2019 (UTC)