Talk:Rugby union in Wales

I've changed the name. I'm not interested in either form of rugby, but I'm working on the menu system for British sport and it should be consistent. The category should really be changed too - a lot of Welsh people may wish that rugby league didn't exist, but Wikipedia should reflect the world as it is, not as we would like it to be. Philip 15:33, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC) There are two articles with very similar titles and overlapping subject areas Welsh rugby union seems to have simply been called Welsh rugby to start with, there is possibly scope to have a History of Welsh rugby union article but details of leagues, clubs etc surely belong in the Welsh Rugby Union article as the WRU are the governing body for rugby union in Wales and are responsible for running these leagues, clubs etc.GordyB 11:10, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are many aspects of Welsh rugby that could not be properly covered in an article on the WRU, such as the history of rugby in Wales, its social impact on Welsh people, its political implications, and so on. If anything, the WRU article should be deleted first as much narrower in scope. Rls 01:27, 2005 Mar 13 (UTC)

You make some good points but you can't delete the WRU article as it is the governing body and other union governing bodies e.g. RFU, IRB have their own articles. What I think needs to happen is for those who want to keep this article to think of a new title and add the proposed scope to the discussion page.GordyB 10:12, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Why does it need a new title? I suppose Welsh rugby union and Welsh Rugby Union is a little confusing. How about Rugby union in Wales? I would transfer it but that would lose the vfd tag. Rls 13:21, 2005 Mar 14 (UTC)

I was thinking of suggesting Rugby union in Wales myself, though the scope of the article needs to be defined. Social aspects clearly belong on this page as probably does discussion of the history of the game in Wales or cwpan (dodgy spelling) but details of pro leagues should (IMO) stay with the WRU article.
 * If nobody else has an opinion I'm going to a) remove vfd tag b) move article to Rugby union in Wales c) add this to the discussion section d) do some surgery on the article to remove stuff that unnecessarily duplicates WRU article. I'll wait a couple of days but I don't see the point in waiting much longer as I'm not actually deleting the page.GordyB 12:39, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I personally think that league details are more appropriate to Rugby union in Wales since the WRU merely organises them on behalf of the clubs involved, but I don't feel strongly about it. Modify it as you see fit. I don't of course have any objection to removing the VfD tag. Rls 17:21, 2005 Mar 15 (UTC)
 * Okay. I'll try to keep the WRU article specific to the WRU's role in these things and make the 'new' article rather broader.GordyB 23:03, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Interesting to see Tommy David elevated to the pantheon of 70s Welsh Rugby gods. I wonder what the likes of Gerald Davies, Merve the Swerve, Graham Price and John Dawes would make of it.68.71.35.93 07:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

If you don't agree with an article, use the edit feature.GordyB 12:42, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

New Zealanders born and play rugby for wales at interNational
New zealanders that have played for wales at interNational leval please can you help me i was tolled that there have been 7 new zealanders play for wales but i can only think of 5= hemi taylor shane howarth bret sinkinson dale Mcintosh sonny parker

if you no can you let me no thanks dean

This page is a mess
I'm amazed this page has continued without being deleted. References are nowhere, apart from a tragic story about a man who should appear on a page about mental illness rather than one of the national pride of Wales. There is far too much opinion, weasel words, flowery prowse and incorrect statements. Is there anyone with reference books and articles regarding the popularity and adopotion of Rugby Union as the countries national sport?--FruitMonkey 11:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The History side is a good start, but we need clarification regarding the statement that Wales played in black before 1880, as the first international game played by Wales was in 1881 against England. More info is also needed on how Rugby came to Wales, and the importance of the college teams like Llandovery and Lampeter. Also there needs to be info on the 1881-1970 years, maybe the religous revival and the growth of the lesser valley clubs. The popularity section is just pointless, we need referenced pieces, such as why in Wales Football was Rugby and Soccer was Football. The importance of the six nations to the country's psyche and maybe less about testicle removal as it makes the Welsh sound like cavemen. Thoughts--FruitMonkey 19:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree the reference to a man on medication castrating himself has no place on the article about rugby--Rhyswynne 17:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Updates
OK, over the next week I'll try to get through the history section of this page and then try to clean up or at least find proof for the citations that have sat on this page for far too long. Any ideas on where this page should head would be greatfully appreciated. I'm really trying to avoid making this page too National team or WRU centric as they have their own pages, so am attempting to give a flavour of what was happening to the clubs at grass root level and the economic and social impacts on and off the sport. So far the one bugbear I have in this work is that the page is very Southern, with very little information from West and North Wales. I completely realise that and if I don't address it on my first sweep will try to correct it on my redrafting. Any opinions or better updates highly appreciated.FruitMonkey (talk) 10:51, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You are doing a great job mate keep it up -- Snowded   TALK  11:07, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The page is beginning to look very good, the points you make are excellent ones.GordyB (talk) 13:41, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the words of support, much appreciated and helps me keep focused rather than wandering off and updating other pages. I was thinking it would be nice to have a picture of a Welsh rugby legend within each of the different periods. But the inter-war period is a difficult one to choose from. I want a player who played the bulk, or all of his rugby between 1920-1939, so I was thinking of a Wilfred Wooller or Claude Davey. This period was a fair bit before my time, so I would love to hear people's opinion. Thanks againFruitMonkey (talk) 17:40, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Popularity
Re: Choral traditions. You're completely right, I should have moved rather than delete, I just couldn't figure how to connect this fact to the heading popularity. Singing does not show a sport is popular, it's more of a tradition. Maybe the heading should be changed slightly, or a sub heading. FruitMonkey (talk) 05:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I was there when we sang hymns for an hour after both of the Grand Slams in recent years!  I think this belongs in some of the unique culture of Welsh Rugby.  The fact that it is a working class sport, and that working class South Wales was dominated by the Chapel is important and unique.   I means that conflict with the English is Race, religion and class which may explain some things!   Maybe a section on culture?  Its worth a back reference to WWI where the Chapels were pacifist at the start, but then agreed to enter the war and the welsh troups went into the trenches singing hymns.  -- Snowded   TALK  06:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good Lord!! You seem to have a far better understanding that myself. I'll still get the old reference books out, but you are right, the singing is part of the culture of Wales and in turn rugby, and other countries realise that too. It should be noted.FruitMonkey (talk) 07:11, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Its a religious matter, my mother tore the bootlace from the Welsh fly half in the 40's and it remains a family heirloom. I can probably track down the WWI stuff when I get home -- Snowded   TALK  07:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I removed the following: "The number of teams playing in Wales at the end of the 20th century in no way reflected the popularity of the sport in the late 19th century, with many informal or 'scratch' teams populating most towns. Llanelli, as an example, in the 1880s was home not only to Llanelli RFC, but also to Gower Road, Seasiders, Morfa Rangers, Prospect Place Rovers, Wern Foundry, Cooper Mills Rangers, New Dock Strollers, Vauxhall Juniors, Moonlight Rovers and Gilbert Street Rovers.[6] These teams would come and go, but some would merge into more settled clubs which exist today, Cardiff RFC was itself formed from three teams, Glamorgan, Tredegarville and Wanderers Football Clubs." as it is complete nonsense. There are more teams and players now than in the 19th century, yes there are fewer clubs but instead of being 15 blokes who played once a year they are proper clubs running often 2 or 3 full teams in each village even without regarding junior teams. To infer that there are less now is pure nostalgic rubbish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.8.104.65 (talk) 15:16, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You removed a few things, better to make the case and get citation support. The comments you removed all have references -- Snowded   TALK  15:39, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * A very agressive edit, without common consent; but the editor has a very good point. These are my words s/he challanges, and the word popularity is very flakey. Though the amount of people playing does not equal popularity, maybe watching does; and lets face it, no one really turns out for junior rugby. I think the term widespread should be used instead, but there needs to be more citation. The thing to point out is that most of the clubs that exist now, existed then, but hundreds have vanished. Llwynypia RFC is a major case in point. FruitMonkey (talk) 00:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

William Absalom of Abercarn RFC?
The Rugby union in Wales article mentions a William Absalom of Abercarn RFC being lost to the league game Is there any details about this player? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 11:32, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Number of Players References
The reference for number of registered players is now defunct (404 error). Similarly, in the 'rugby players by country' article wherein there are two citations, one of which is the same as used here, they are both defunct. Could anyone provide a reliable source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by YorkshireNation (talk • contribs) 15:37, 24 November 2016 (UTC)