Talk:Ruggiero Giovanelli

Merge other article, Ruggiero Giovannelli to here
I created this article in response to a request to transcribe the subject from the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia. I missed the existing Wiki article when I was searching before writing.

This article uses a broad range of old and new sources (I added none of my own interpretation). The other article Ruggiero Giovannelli seems to depend on a number of uncited statements from one particular recent author. I don't have access to that source, but I copied across those statements that seemed likely to be correct.

I did my best with his list of works, but the three major lists I could find all were incomplete, and seemed to perhaps use different terms for the same thing. Piano non troppo (talk) 06:23, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I used the New Grove, which is the gold standard music encyclopedia in the world today (only the MGG comes close), and I used Reese's magisterial Music in the Renaissance, the largest and most complete single history of music of the era, as a secondary source. When I wrote the article, January 2005, that was before we were using inline cites; I did, however, list all my sources, so "seems to depend on a number of uncited statements" isn't exactly capturing the situation:  the authors of the Grove article, and Gustave Reese himself, were the two authors most likely to know about Giovannelli.  By the way, the double-n spelling is that most commonly used by musicologists.  See, for example, the following articles:


 * A. Gabrielli: Ruggiero Giovannelli: musicista insigne (Velletri, 1907)
 * H.-W. Frey: Ruggiero Giovannelli: eine biographische Studie, KJb, xxii (1909), 49–62
 * A. Cametti: Ruggiero Giovannelli: note biografiche, Musica d’oggi, vii (1925), 211–12
 * A. Gabrielli: Ruggiero Giovannelli nella vita e nelle opere (Velletri, 1926)
 * C. Winter: Ruggiero Giovannelli: Nachfolger Palestrinas zu St. Peter in Rom (Munich, 1935)
 * R.I. DeFord: Ruggiero Giovannelli and the Madrigal in Rome, 1572–1599 (diss., Harvard U., 1975) [incl. edns of music]


 * Note especially the 1975 doctoral dissertation uses the double-n spelling, which remains current. I'm not sure why the author of the Catholic Encyclopedia article used the single-n.
 * By the way, one has to be cautious using the Catholic Encyclopedia as a source on articles on Renaissance and early Baroque composers. It's full of stuff that's just, well, wrong, or at least superseded, corrected, and refined.  Musicology has come a long way since then; indeed that was written a half-century before Alfred Einstein published his colossal The Italian Madrigal in 1949, which is the foundation for most subsequent work in secular music of the time.
 * I'd be happy to look over the contents of both articles with regard to the article in the most current New Grove (2001) -- accessible online -- since I wrote the original using the 1980 (which I have in hard copy), and there's a bunch of new research since then, it needs a facelift anyway. Thank you for your work on this!  Antandrus  (talk) 18:34, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That's all fine, in the particulars.


 * It's too bad that someone left an unannotated list of topics, or I could have saved myself an hour's work (not to mention the work I caused by creating this article!) I.e., the article shouldn't have asked for, when it wasn't needed.


 * I'm not surprised, though, that a hundred year old reference would have a difference of opinion. I wrote a paper once comparing two versions of the Britannica, and, in the articles I chose, they sometimes entirely contradicted.


 * Thanks for your detailed, on the basis of this experience, I'm removing myself from: Category:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles participants. In the time I spent on this article I could have created two entirely new articles -- where the facts weren't particularly in question! Not to mention that I apparently wasted your time, too. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 09:39, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, i merged both articles. I tried to keep all info of both articles in there. Since the other article is linked to other-language wiki's of the same article, i assumed that is the correct naming so i merged the article there. Omegastar (talk) 12:10, 23 May 2010 (UTC)