Talk:Rumination syndrome

Viral Video
There's been a certain video going around the internet that features a girl who has an... "ability" to do exactly what this article is describing. Maybe that girl has this syndrome. If you know what I'm talking about, great, let's discuss. If not, forget you even read this. ShihoMiyano (talk) 23:03, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Parenthetical comments, qualifications, expressed skepticism
I'm sorry to have to say it, but this article looks like a mess. Why is it peppered with parenthetical comments such as "(unsubstantiated theory/hypothesis)," "(necessarily)," "(personal experience)?" NONE of this belongs within the body of the article. The text should not serve as a critique of itself. Issues that are disputed or questioned should be discussed here on the discussion page, OR the text should be edited so that it is SUBSTANTIATED by cited sources, and NOT BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that would amount to Original Research. I don't know what is, or what isn't substatiated, I don't know whose supposed "personal experience" is being referenced, and I know nothing about the subject. I came to read and learn from the article, and stumbled into a catastrophe of qualifications and skepticism. Someone please clean this up. zadignose (talk) 18:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've removed much of the material which was unsourced and heavily dependent on qualifying parenthetical comments. I've also removed statments whose factual nature has been in question at least since being tagged last December.  It looks cleaner and simpler now.  Add back only what can be credited to a reliable source. zadignose (talk) 05:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately for an article of this nature, personal experience IS neccessary. This is a condition that practically every doctor on the planet ignores in favour of a diagnosis of Bulimia. My girlfriend suffers from a variety of this syndrome, and I will be adding my personal research. It is just as valid, important, contributing, and truthful as an article off the web (If anything, it's more truthful) - Floydian 01:19, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Makeover vs. 3
I have rewritten this article based upon an information sheet I have from the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. The article has been divided into categories, and proper information has been added.

Some information is of my own research. While I am not a licenced doctor, I have witnessed my significant other suffer with this for several years now. Every doctor is so quick to prove their intelligence as a doctor that rather than listening and looking deeper, they dismiss it as bulimia. There is little, if any, accurate information on non-infant non-handicapped sufferers available.

Qualified or not, my "original research" is based on a sufferer, and may be of great assistance to other sufferers. I will fight to retain what I have added. - Floydian (talk) 02:39, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Your qualifications are irrelevant. Wikipedia's mandatory policy, WP:No original research, is at issue.  You may not include your own original research because it is not WP:Verifiable, even if it is 100% true.  Wikipedia includes what is "verifiable, not True™".  WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Everything is or will be backed up. The adjectives I use and the way things are described may be based on my accounts, but the facts will all be backed up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Floydian (talk • contribs) 07:18, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * By what? Wikipedia is made from unbiased accounts from reliable sources. Whether your account is truthful or not doesn't matter if it cannot be verified. ShihoMiyano (talk) 22:23, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Transfer to Rumination Syndrome
Since this condition does have an actual name, I have decided to move it to a page titled Rumination Syndrome, to adknowledge that fact. To list it as Rumination (eating disorder) is to simply say that the symptom of rumination is an eating disorder, when the actual condition is far more complicated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Floydian (talk • contribs) 22:32, 8 June 2009

Assessment
Please do not blank the WPMED assessments just because you're working on the article. The importance of this rare syndrome (to WPMED as a whole) won't change, even if the article is perfect; the quality can be reassessed on request by leaving a note at WP:MEDA. Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC).


 * Rare because nobody comes forward and because it's so underdiagnosed. - Floydian (talk) 18:05, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

To Do
This is a checklist for myself. Others need not worry unless they are brave and want to tackle the challenge :)

Will cross out as completed --  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  03:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

As someone who "suffers" from Rumination "Syndrome," I'd like an explanation of why, exactly, it is considered a disease. It seems more like a physical skill that not everyone possesses, like wiggling one's ears or touching one's nose with one's tongue. I've had Rumination Syndrome for probably ten years, and my teeth enamel is in fine shape. Also, since I developed this ability, I rarely have heartburn. I read and reread the article, and I couldn't find anything beyond the tooth-enamel thing that would classify this as a disease. (In my case, it hasn't affected my weight at all.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Serop2 (talk • contribs) 18:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not a disease. Diseases are caused by pathogens. Rumination is a disorder, as those with it are unable to eat as intended. I'm not sure if I mistakenly labelled it as a disease or not (as far as I remember it only mentions disorder). Tooth enamel was merely stated in a study. In my case there is no damage to the enamel either. Actually, now that you mention it, my significant other has never experienced heartburn in the past several years.

You should fix also on line 4 the sentence that is missing a subject and a capital letter in the beginning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.252.88.138 (talk) 17:25, 14 February 2012 (UTC)


 * However, my intention here is recognition by getting it on the main page, which means sticking to the "facts" published in the one or two studies done on this disorder, unfortunately. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  20:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Is the long citation string in the first line necessary
I felt it necessary to strongly emphasize the lack of awareness of this disorder whatsoever within the public or medical community. Every paper cited in that string contains some mention of the fact that there is very little knowledge of the disorder and very little awareness of it. There are only two places in North America that treat the disorder, and not many more that have ever heard of it. These citations back up the usage of the word "severely." -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  17:42, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Article Reassessment for WikiProject Medicine
Hello. I am a member of WikiProject Medicine, a Wikipedia wide project that maintains and improves articles that fall under the scope of medicine. Since your article is already under has our tag, I have now reassessed it to make sure if is in the right WikiProject. Upon reassessment of the article, I'd like to make a few points, as shown below: Leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions. I'm glad this article could fall within our scope, and I hope to see it grow large! Many thanks! Renaissancee (talk) 17:18, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Reassess article with class and importance factors
 * Reassessed tags for correct placements
 * Your article is very clearly written..I would suggest trying out for GA in the very near future!

Wording
Could you give use exact numbers rather than severely under-diagnosed Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 00:36, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No. There are no numbers because there's only one place in North America that treats it, and they have no way of knowing how much more prevalent the condition is. They probably won't for a while because the condition is by and large ignored by doctors, who consider it (get this) benign (which is probably because the pharmaceutical companies can't make money off selling a breathing technique, but that's just my humble opinion there). -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  01:39, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * So if there are no exact numbers, how can it be definitively stated that it is "severely under-diagnosed?" Sounds like speculation.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.6.97.20 (talk) 12:16, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It would be if the sources used in the article didn't state it verbatim. I believe it's in Papadoupolis et al. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  12:53, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

suggestions
Hi, I saw the note on WT:MED about how you're thinking of taking this to FAC soon and requesting input. Looks good, well referenced and refs are of high quality. But I do have a few suggestions:


 * Occasionally too technical and fancy language--opt for the simplest way of saying something to make the article readable by the widest audience. e.g. amongst -> among, postprandially -> after eating, ingested -> eaten.
 * Definitely on this one. I've heard a few times that the medical terminology is daunting... Though I disagree with which ones need dumbing down. Postprandially seems to flow better in many cases and is wikilinked at its first occurrence to wiktionary, and changing ingested to eaten in most cases reads very very strange (This vomiting occurs several hours after the meal is eaten vs. This vomiting occurs several hours after the meal is ingested).
 * Well, in that example you could just say "...after the meal." That would reduce the wording (redundant and unnecessary wording is a common thing to get trouble for at FAC, and you can expect the reader to figure out what the patient does to the meal).  Check out User:Tony1/How to improve your writing for more on that.    delldot   &nabla;.  05:22, 12 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Say what the disorder is in the first sentence. Leave the epidemiolgy info in the first and second sentences till later in the para.  If the third sentence info is presented first (maybe pared down), the current first, second and fourth sentences will flow better together.
 * Done... My grammar is absolutely terrible, so you may wish to look over the change
 * Looks good! delldot   &nabla;.  05:32, 12 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Some material needs to be better referenced or more loyal to given references. e.g. no mention of some of the diagnostic criteria in the list ref'd to ref 8 .  e.g. no mention of belching.  That ref says 'is usually not...nausea', this article says 'is not'.
 * Will add more references. There are two or three different nosologies that give slightly different criteria.
 * Done. The reason for this is that I used a direct reference to a picture contained in another reference (ref 1, J of Postgrad). The criteria picture used very absolute wording, but the prose in the accompanying article explained the nuances. Regardless, I've sourced each point.


 * This sentence is out of place and should be integrated into the previous para discussing success of the technique: Patients who successfully use the technique often notice an immediate change in health for the better.
 * Done


 * This sentence is also out of place and probably doesn't belong in Treatment: Past studies of rumination syndrome have described it as benign.[17] However, more recent studies have described otherwise.
 * Agreed. I couldn't decide which section it fit in, but after hearing it is 'benign' from a doctor at the mayo clinic, it really needs to be somewhere in there that it is not a benign condition (Tell them to live with vomiting every meal and call it benign). Any suggested location that would flow better?
 * Possibly in the lead after Like most eating disorders, rumination can adversely affect normal functioning and the social lives of afflicted individuals. (or before.)  Normally you wouldn't put info in the lead that's not in the body, but this may be an exception since it's such a simple point about the general nature of the condition.  Since there's no classification section, there's not really a place for discussion of what this condition is.  The closest thing is Diagnosis, but I don't see anywhere in there where this sentence would flow with the rest of it.   delldot   &nabla;.  05:32, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Done


 * Awkward: can lead to the child becoming malnourished. How about can lead to malnutrition?  or can cause the child to become...?
 * Done


 * Turn the ref in the caption for the epidemiology image into a footnote like the other refs.
 * Done


 * I can't see the numbers in the epidemiology image. Any way you could enlarge the numbers so I can see them without leaving the article?
 * I can try...There's a lot of numbers and it may look really terrible, but I'll see what I can do.


 * Can you provide PMIDs for the journal refs? (Search the article title in pubmed, then copy the number at the bottom of the abstract)
 * Will do. Done.

That's all I got for now. delldot  &nabla;.  18:17, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool. I've already made most of the changes already. Some I will do shortly, and others I left a comment for. Thanks -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  19:01, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Alrighty. Pretty much done minus some small changes left to be done to Diagnosis (the list), and the request you made on the picture. I put the nomination through since I'll probably have a month if it's backlogged like GAN. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  16:21, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Also per your request at WT:MED:
 * 1) More visuals; maybe a pic of the upper GI tract with relevant landmarks highlighted, or a pic of Barrett's esophagus if applicable, something. Or several somethings.
 * 2) Don't rely so heavily on your first two sources, even it they're awesome.
 * In the FA review, I'm being told to use it more in place of older sources. The papadopolus source is a review of all the studies before then (2007)  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢
 * I don't think this is that big of a problem. If not much is written on this, of course you're going to rely heavily on a few sources.  Obviously, try to get as diverse sources as you can, but don't opt for a poorer source just to avoid citing a better one "too much".   delldot   &nabla;.  18:21, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) Cite your basis for calling it under-diagnosed clearly, because that's easily and often said about many conditions but hard to prove sometimes.
 * Every single source says that is under diagnosed and needs more awareness amongst doctors and the public.  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢

Finally I would also condense the intro substantially, but that's just my personal stylistic preference. Kudos and keep up the good work. - Draeco (talk) 06:19, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The sentence in the DDx section that says Bulimia nervosa and gastroparesis are especially prevalent among the misdiagnosis of rumination is confusing to me... it sounds like you're saying a disease is incorrectly diagnosed as rumination, when in fact it should be BN or GP, but I think you probably mean the opposite.


 * Thanks for the suggestions. A few of them I'm torn on because different editors are telling me the opposite, not to use studies from the late 90's when the 2007 review can be used. Never thought of the whole barretts esophagus thing... Good idea. Thank you -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  15:36, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I haven't read through the whole talk page to see if it's been discussed, but have you considered changing the In other animals heading to something shorter? Not exactly sure what you'd do here, but it just sounds sort of awkward. Strombollii (talk) 15:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. In Animals sounds much better, but In other animals is the heading given at WP:MEDMOS -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  15:55, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Journal
If anyone is able to retrieve the full text to Rumination documented by using combined multichannel intraluminal impedance and manometry, I have a feeling it may contain a diagram, or information useful in drawing a diagram of the actual regurgitation process. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  09:01, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * What's the PMID? Strombollii (talk) 21:09, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait, wait. Nevermind. Will look later. Strombollii (talk) 21:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, meant to link directly to the pubmed entry. It's fixed. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  21:22, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Haha yeah, I had found it. But it's a journal that I don't have access to here at school. Sorry. Strombollii (talk) 23:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

ice cream
I find it easy to accidentally bring up recently swallowed icecream, would that be an example of regurgitation or more likely just incomplete swallowing? (I suspect I have a hiatal hernia) Also, is there a term for being able to easily inhale air into the stomach (not just swallowing air)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 02:14, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Those tend to be disorders of the glottis or cardia, the two sphincters in the esophagus which keep food in the stomach and cause the urge to burp. Usually those who can bring stuff up have some conscious degree of control over both. I'd be surprised if you couldn't do it with other liquids if your tried.

I have no idea if there is a medical term for this, but those sphincters are where you'd want to start your research. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  22:50, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Differential: Achalasia
Hi there - can I ask if there is a reason why there is no differential or discussion on how this disease compares to, and differs from, Achalasia. Just to give you a quick quote (from Wikipedia): "Achalasia is characterized by difficulty swallowing, regurgitation, and sometimes chest pain." and further "The main symptoms of achalasia are dysphagia (difficulty in swallowing), regurgitation of undigested food, chest pain behind the sternum, and weight loss." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.2.142.226 (talk) 18:42, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Contradiction in lead?
There is no [...] odour, These symptoms include [...] halitosis

Seems confusion here... Lesion 10:22, 10 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The vomit is odourless, but halitosis is a common result of everything. -  Floydian  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  13:43, 10 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks for that clarification. Maybe the halitosis is the result of increased bacterial activity in the retentive surface created by (o)esophageal erosions... Lesion  14:34, 10 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm totally not qualified medically to know (I only wrote this article because my s.o. at the time was afflicted by it, only to be told again and again by pompous non-curious doctors that she was doing it to herself; regardless she didn't have any halitosis)... but I'd hazard to guess that it's either destroying helpful bacteria or regurgitating odour-causing bacteria. -  Floydian  <sup style="color:#3AAA3A;">τ <sub style="color:#3AAA3A;">¢  22:08, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Rumination syndrome. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120215075535/http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=08222k1110283n0m&size=largest to http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=08222k1110283n0m&size=largest

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Cheers.—<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II <sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS"> Talk to my owner :Online 09:23, 15 February 2016 (UTC)