Talk:Russian Olympic Committee athletes at the 2020 Summer Olympics

Russia's back?
Is the Russian Federation really back at the Olympics or not? Nate-Dawg921 (talk) 02:49, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * As of 29 Jan, no. Primefac (talk) 13:09, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 20 February 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: withdrawn for the moment, as the last comment by the IP makes a valid point regarding common names and how they will be referred. I will likely revisit this question closer to the Games when there has been more press. Primefac (talk) 17:22, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Russian athletes at the 2020 Summer Olympics → ROC at the 2020 Summer Olympics – With announcement yesterday of Russia competing under ROC, it would seem appropriate to move the page to match the language of that decision. Primefac (talk) 15:22, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Not yet Let's wait to make sure that this term is the one that reliable sources end up using. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 20:12, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment - Also, not sure whether it would cause any confusion given that "ROC" can also refer to Taiwan (officially the Republic of China, commonly known as Taiwan, known as Chinese Taipei when in the Olympics). Paintspot Infez (talk) 23:06, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Potential confusion for readers (though likely cleared up with a hatnote), but from the template-side of things not an issue (there are similar cases of same-code-different-games which are already proven to work). Primefac (talk) 23:23, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Support This NOC code has been agreed with the IOC, and the story was carried by Reuters which is a reliable international news organisation. ROC is not Taiwan's NOC code. Rodney Baggins (talk) 23:17, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose. We don't use codes unless absolutely forced to, and the fact Taiwan's code is TPE doesn't make "ROC" unambiguous. The primary meaning of "ROC" would still be the Republic of China.  O.N.R.  (talk) 00:11, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * , it's not a code, it's an acronym, and it's being required by the IOC. Primefac (talk) 00:15, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * That doesn't change the fact "ROC" primarily means Taiwan.  O.N.R.  (talk) 00:17, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose I see no reason to use code or acronyms that has not been done so in the past. The articles were named "Independent Olympic Athletes" in 2016 and "Olympic Athletes from Russia" in 2018. The refugee group is called the "Refugee Olympic Team" and not "ROT". So, in my opinion, there is no reason to change to "ROC", maximum to "Russian Olympic Athletes". Nimrodbr (talk) 06:03, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Very Strong oppose ROC in my mind means the "Republic of China" which often refers as "Taiwan". 110.137.166.20 (talk) 06:32, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose ROC is the code, which will represent Russian athletes. So this article should remain to detail how Russian athletes at the 2020 games are known as ROC, and why. As above, no other code, including IOA, OAR, and ROT, has ever been used in an article title. Also  points to  (Republic of China) so we will have to be extra careful when using it. doktorb wordsdeeds
 * Comment What about "Russian Olympic Committee athletes at the 2020 Summer Olympics". I know it's a long title but it's more accurate and/or clear than the two alternatives. Topcardi (talk) 14:56, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The Reuter's article says they're explicitly not allowed to use that. I'm not sure why people are so bent out of shape over the official designation for this group, but if all else fails I would be willing to entertain that as an alternate option. Primefac (talk) 15:46, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The reason you're getting pushback is that Wikipedia doesn't necessarily use official names as article titles. See WP:COMMONNAME.  The source article from Reuters makes it clear that "ROC" is the official name; however, it may be confusing to readers.  A few commenters have pointed out the similarity to Chinese Taipei's name, and I have a suspicion that media outlets (WP:SOURCES) may end up avoiding "ROC" because of that.    162.208.168.92 (talk) 17:18, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Comment on article title
Since (1) "Russian Olympic Committee" is not going to be their official title per Reuters, (2) we've never used IOC codes in a title before, and (3) based on the 2018 article title, I'd like to suggest that this article's title be whatever name and placard is used during the Parade of Nations, whenever that's officially determined. If they actually print and announce the three-letter acronym "ROC"/"R.O.C."/etc., I'm all for it. It's looking like it might just be "Russian Neutral Athletes" or similar though. Zowayix001 (talk) 11:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think we need to wait that long before changing the name of the page, but I do agree that waiting until we're closer is a good idea. Primefac (talk) 15:03, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

IOC code
Is it officially concluded that the IOC code for the Russian delegation will be ROC at these olympics? If so, how is it going to be used in the article where it conflicts with the already implemented ROC=Republic of China? -boldblazer (talk) 02:16, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, and as near as I can tell the module changes I made are working as intended; see for example the table in this article. Primefac (talk) 02:31, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know how you did it but many thanks. I was worrying about the complicated workarounds we would need to implement! doktorb wordsdeeds 10:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Not a problem! It's a little different than some of the past cases, but it's definitely not the first instance of a country switching code and/or being banned from competing. Primefac (talk) 10:52, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Is it possible to make the flag the Russian Olympic Committee symbol instead of the Olympic Flag? That's what they're actually going to be flying. Zowayix001 (talk) 03:21, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately not, File:Russian Olympic Committee logo.svg is under non-free use, and so while we can get away with it on Russian Olympic Committee, I'm not sure we can also put it here. If the ROC itself has released the flag for public use, though, then by all means let's change the tags and get it set up. Primefac (talk) 12:49, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmm, c:COM:TOO Russia said something confused on the logos' TOO situation, but giving RZhD's logo is on Commons, can't this be below their general TOO rule? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:01, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm just going off what is posted at File:Russian Olympic Committee logo.svg, i.e. Non-free use rationale 2. Not sure what RZhD is, but it can't hurt to have a discussion somewhere about whether the ROC logo is PD (my interpretation of TOO Russia is that since it's not just simple shapes it can be copyrighted). Primefac (talk) 12:18, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Can this be used instead? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ROC_flag_(2021_NWSCh).png -boldblazer (talk) 10:05, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Should be doable.Primefac (talk) 11:18, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * How do you get just the small ROC flag to appear without the accompanying link to this article? -boldblazer (talk) 06:30, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * There's a long and involved way to do it with country alias directly . Not exactly short, so I added a variant to flagicon; this means will get you 🇷🇺. Primefac (talk) 10:27, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 2 March 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Procedural close per below. (nac by page mover)  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 16:49, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

ROC at the 2020 Summer Olympics → Russian athletes at the 2020 Summer Olympics – Article was moved without discussion by User:Raymarcbadz. A previous discussion (Russian athletes at the 2020 Summer Olympics) did not show consensus. The "ROC" designation has been officially announced, however it is unclear if it will emerge as the WP:COMMONNAME, given the possible confusion with Chinese Taipei. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 14:38, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Speedy moved as undiscussed and controversial – we've just had this discussion, and the ROC title was rather strongly opposed. No such user (talk) 15:06, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 6 March 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Speedy moved as a revert of a controversial undiscussed move. (Move protection requested at WP:RFP.) —&hairsp;BarrelProof (talk) 19:35, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

ROC at the 2020 Summer Olympics → Russian athletes at the 2020 Summer Olympics – Page was once again moved without consensus. Recommend to WP:GREENLOCK article 162.208.168.92 (talk) 01:24, 6 March 2021 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support speedy moved. As many users commented, ROC more commonly refers to the Republic of China, which means as "Taiwan". 36.77.94.238 (talk) 02:34, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Support for the reasons above and the reasons I made in the earlier discussions. The article title should clearly reflect that it refers to Russian athletes, and the lead should be clear that those Russian athletes will compete using a specific tag. No other article places this "tag" first; imagine "GBR at the 2020 Summer Olympics," for one example. There has been a clear consensus for "Russian athletes" before. Moving without consensus is against Wikipedia policy and needs to be resisted. doktorb wordsdeeds 03:47, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Move. Current is not ok, ROC means Taiwan. —-SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The whole point of the WADA sanction was to ban the team from using its name to refer to Russia. This is reflected in the title. See also Neutral Paralympic Athletes at the 2018 Winter Paralympics, which intentionally does not mention Russia in its title for effectively the same reason, but does so at the beginning of the lede. The only reason why this article begins with the tag/IOC code is because (by all appearances) that is what is literally going to be printed on their team name placard and announced by the announcers (see Olympic Athletes from Russia at the 2018 Winter Olympics). The previous consensus came about before the official team name was known. Unfortunately, the conflict with Republic of China is an unavoidable coincidence, which deserves a Template:About hatnote. Zowayix001 (talk) 07:34, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Move back and protect. This move war has gone on long enough.  O.N.R.  (talk) 15:25, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

ROC and not Russian
As per official IOC decision: --Arorae (talk) 00:37, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
 * So, “Russian” is unacceptably at odds with official name choices. And ROC is unacceptable because it is ambiguous, particularly with the Republic of China, aka Taiwan. So I have expanded the ambiguous acronym, to give Russian Olympic Committee athletes at the 2020 Summer Olympics. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:44, 5 June 2021 (UTC). This is a longish title, but give it time, noting the oddities, the 2020 olympics did not happen in 2020, and these athletes may not even get there, it hasn’t happened yet. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:46, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

If this article was moved to "Russian Olympic Committee athletes at the 2020 Summer Olympics" then does the same need to happen for the accompanying article for the Paralympics and also the one for the 2022 Olympics? -boldblazer (talk) 04:19, 14 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Not really, but some might think so. SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:44, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
 * If an RM is to be held (and I'm not sure it's the right time yet), it should discuss all three titles at once to avoid any conflicting titles. Primefac (talk) 10:23, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "ROC" is the reserved name in Olympics for drug addicts from the Resource Federation, there is no confusion with any other similar names outside of Olympics. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 19:46, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Competitors
The numbers in the columns are incorrect, probably the Rowing line - Men 3, Women 7, Total 14? Either the total is mean to be 10, or if 14 is correct, the Men and/or Women is incorrect.

Also, the Overall Total is listed as 328, but adds up to 332 - possibly due to the Rowing error above. 146.112.56.87 (talk) 00:41, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

The statement that "No more than 10 Authorised Neutral Athletes will be granted by World Athletics to Russian Olympic Committee" is confusing when the rest of the paragraph identifies more than 100 athletes added to the roster in May 2021. Is there a term at art at play here? Is the ROC, as competing in Tokyo, made up of "no more than 10 Authorised Neutral Athletes" plus more than a hundred other types of athletes? Jnmwiki (talk) 18:57, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Medalists
What do you think about creating separate categories for ROC team medalists ? Like Category:Olympic medalists for Olympic Athletes from Russia

Not sure which option will be more correct:
 * :Category:Olympic medalists for the ROC
 * :Category:Olympic medalists for the Russian Olympic Committee athletes
 * :Category:Olympic medalists for the Russian Olympic Committee

Working examples: fr:Catégorie:Champion olympique du Comité olympique de Russie, ru:Категория:Олимпийские чемпионы от Олимпийского комитета России

And website "https://www.olympedia.org/countries/ROC" combined two teams (Olympic Athletes from Russia and  Russian Olympic Committee athletes)  into one

WildCherry06 19:20, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I would go for Category:Olympic medalists for the Russian Olympic Committee athletes--Ymblanter (talk) 19:26, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Looking at 2018 Winter the categories are Category:Olympic gold medalists for Olympic Athletes from Russia and similar. As much as they are "officially" (per the IOC) called ROC, I did a quick search the other day and "Russian Olympics Committee athletes" beats out "ROC athletes" by a rather significant margin, so... COMMONNAME etc. Primefac (talk) 01:23, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Flag?
Why is this article using the Olympic flag in the infobox? The ROC team competed under the Russian Olympic Committee flag (File:ROC flag (2021 NWSCh).png). The image used in the flagIOC template is also incorrect. 162 etc. (talk) 00:12, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, it was using File:Russian Olympic Committee flag.svg, which was deleted last week. I do recognise the png exists, but I have the funny feeling that it's still on Commons because no one has noticed it yet; I am still trying to find evidence that it is freely usable before swapping over to the png (and/or attempting to get the svg undeleted). Primefac (talk) 05:28, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Is there any news on this? I was looking at the article and found it odd that there was no flag being displayed, when File:Russie Olympic Comittee banner.jpg is used on Russian Olympic Committee. Rowing007 (talk) 14:52, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not free to use, so we can't use it. Primefac (talk) 17:49, 17 March 2023 (UTC)