Talk:Russian submarine Nerpa (K-152)

Merge
The article is a stub and needs expansion-- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 10:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Please note that this submarine in press is classed as Akula-II class, not Akula-I —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.161.86.39 (talk) 08:23, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you post a link to the press article? Jehochman Talk 11:56, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

wtf?
"This military documents a current event. Information may change rapidly as the event progresses." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.90.132.193 (talk) 09:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

NATO reporting name
Is the NATO reporting name necessary in lead sentence? The reason given for adding the NATO reporting name, "NATO names are, frankly, much better known"  is incorrect, it may be better known in NATO countries, but there are countries outside NATO. The name can be mentioned later, but it is pro-NATO bias to mention it in lead. It is not Natopedia.  Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 14:05, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe the NATO class designation is ok. Outside the CIS it is more readily recognised than (or at least as readily as) the actual class name in Russian. Sv1xv (talk) 14:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This is the ENGLISH Wiki. It is geared towards English speakers, the vast majority of which are members of NATO states.50.111.44.55 (talk) 19:45, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Casulaties
While the number of casualties and injuries is important to this article and needs to be included, including it in an infobox is distasteful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OlYeller21 (talk • contribs) 17:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with olyeller21, it is needed but it seems wrong to have it in an infobox just as any other piece of information. Its not like "population", this is 20 lives lost and 21+ in danger of being seriously affected. Wikisaver62 (talk) 17:57, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Making the change. I'm being bold deleting the infobox as the info in it is in the body of the article.  It's redundant to have it listed twice.


 * The infobox deletion was reverted because the infobox was meant to summarize text in the section. While I do agree that infoboxes summarize a body's information I believe that the section it is summarizing is too short to warrant a summarization especially since it has its own article.  I will honor that editors wishes but continue with the deletion of the casualties and injuries as discussed and agreed upon here.   Ol Yeller  '''Talktome 08:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Lease status
Is India still interested in this submarine? There should be a note on its status. --128.211.201.161 (talk) 17:51, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Fire Source/ Freon/ Halon
From the Wiki page for Freon " It is one of a class of chemicals called Haloalkanes". I will guess then mean Halon. Halon is also a firefighting agent, and a CFC, which based on its being a CFC is being phased out in the US Navy. Halon dis not displace oxygen; and potentiaolly safe to enter a space where halon had been discharged. Halon, however would break down from high heating, and one by-product was a toxic gas, maybe a nerve agent. Halon might put a fire out but provided No protection to prevent the fire from restarting/reflash. Wfoj2 (talk) 02:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

RE: Fire Source / Freon / Halon
Halon gas does suppress fires by displacing oxygen (it's heavier than air) and it is not a CFC. CFC stands for Chloro Flouro Carbon. Halon is Bromine based. They share similar properties, but are different gasses. It's kind of like confusing Oxygen with Hydrogen. Both are volitle, but only one of them we can breathe. [The above unsigned comment from User:Sundive


 * Halons are not necessarily Bromine based. Halon 14, for example is carbon tetrachloride.  Halon 112 is dichlorofluoromethane, which is, of course, a CFC.  David Biddulph (talk) 16:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Fire suppression activity of Halon is not perfectly understood, but it is a chemical process not an oxygen displacement mechanism. Normal system operation requires a concentration of Halon to be maintained in the space for a period of time.  This concentration is relatively low, in the 15% range, this is why trapping persons in protected areas dose not normally ashyxiate them.  Of course being sealed in a room with a fire has consequences! One of the big drivers for using Halon was this fact as weighed against one of the more popular early suppressants, carbon dioxide, which did displace all the oxygen in protected areas and did asphyxiate all trapped in the space. 69.228.216.116 (talk) 16:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The US Navy uses Halon 1301 as its suppression system. While about as destructive to ozone as a CFC, chemically it is composed of Bromine, not Chlorine.  It works as a fire suppression system through a chemical process that absorbs the energy of the fire as well as through oxygen displacement.  Dumping any gas into a sealed space up to a concentration of 15% will have a significant impact on fire propagation.  Remember, oxygen is about 21% of total air.  It is the ability to absorb the energy of fire (eliminating the heat side of the fire triangle) that makes Halon 1301 an effective suppression agent.  The soak time of Halon is necessary because while enough heat energy may have been removed from the space at the lower oxygen concentration, if the space is ventilated and fresh oxygen introduced there may be sufficient heat energy to reignite the fire (sort of like a backdraft). Dworjan (talk) 23:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes the Navy uses 1301 as do many facilites that installed it prior to it being broadly restricted due to ozone depleting characteristics. But, it does not work primarily as an oxygen displacer like carbon dioxide, or an energy grabber like water mist. For reference just look at the Wikipedia article on it and follow the external link for general information. The primary mechanism is chemical interference with the combustion reaction. 69.228.216.116 (talk) 17:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The gas in this case was Freon-22, apparently - chlorodifluoromethane. -- ChrisO (talk) 23:24, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

"Gas Masks"
I feel that the term "gas mask" is not correct. I think that a brething device like a SCBA would be used. A Gas mask would be worthless in this case, as it is unable to supply oxygen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.130.205.46 (talk) 05:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It depends on your definition of a "gas mask". The stuff in question, so-called "ПДА" ("personal'nyi dykhatel'nyi apparat" or Personal Breathing Apparatus) is indeed a small oxygen bottle with mask fitting, good for about 30 minutes of idle waiting or 10 minutes of work, indended to keep the crewman alive until the compartment is ventilated, or, optionally, until one connects to a cental breathing line through special hose. There might be confusion of terms, also. In Russian, the word for filtering gas mask and independent one is the same -- "противогаз", so it's neccessary to clarify it in times of doubt. --Khathi (talk) 05:26, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Moving content to a daughter article
Per the good article review, I have moved content related to the 2008 accident to a daughter article to avoid problems with undue weight, leaving a summary in this article. The content is clearly linked from the relevant section of the article, Summary style. Jehochman Talk 02:56, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Rename / Redirect
What do we do with the article name when the ship is renamed by India? Jehochman Talk 12:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

That's a tough one to say because India hasn't purchased the Submarine.It just leased it.But I too think that it can be renamed to INS Chakra. Srikar Kashyap (talk) 11:53, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Submarine's Name
The submarine is no longer "K-152 Nerpa" I propose all K-152 Nerpa terms to be replaced with INS Chakra except in places where the accident is mentioned — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.161.215.19 (talk) 17:17, 9 April 2012 (UTC)


 * As mentioned by User:Srikarkashyap here Talk:Russian_submarine_K-152_Nerpa, this is a difficult issue, as the submarine is leased, not purchased. The are rumors that after the expiry of the 10 year lease, India has the option to buy the submarine, but that is disputed, and as such is prohibited under international treaties as this is a nuclear sub. I am not sure what to do. But building a consensus is a must for renaming the article. Anir1uph (talk) 06:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested Move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 23:53, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Russian submarine Nerpa (K-152) → INS Chakra – I have previously(1 year ago) opposed the idea of renaming the article but after giving it a thought, I feel it makes sense to move the article. The boat will stay with India for 10 yrs which is quite a long amount of time and India will most probably buy it off after ten years. If India doesn't buy the sub then, we could rename it back to Nerpa in 2022. For now, I would like you all to consider the rename request. Cheers, Relisted. BDD (talk) 22:43, 26 December 2013 (UTC)  ƬheStrike  Σagle  sorties  16:37, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Support move. Anir1uph &#124; talk &#124; contrib 16:53, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Russian submarine Nerpa (K-152) → INS Chakra – I oppose the idea of renaming the article but it also needs to have an interactive reference to any article labeled INS Chakra. The submarine will stay with India for 10 yrs which, while quite a long amount of time, still does not make it belong to India. At the conclusion of the 10-year lease the lease may be extended or the submarine returned to Russia. It cannot be sold to India.
 * Do NOT Support move.Федоров (talk) 19:42, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Would you care to motivate your wp:!vote? walk victor falktalk 10:14, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * While the formatting is confusing, the comment above "Do NOT Support" is this user's rationale. Its resemblance to a move request is probably accidental. --BDD (talk) 22:44, 26 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak oppose isn't the Chakra still a Russian property? And what makes you think the boat will be sold off at the end of the lease? I think that's an unsubstantiated conclusion. What I concede, however, is that the boat during the next 9 years would not be referred to as the Nerpa, but as the Chakra, therefore detaching the title from mainstream media references. --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 11:51, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisting comment How do we handle vessels in similar situations? If this will be known as the Chakra for ten or more years, the move could be a good idea; if it's going back to Russia, then it seems the Chakra period is just part of the Nerpa's history. How can we make a decision without speculating? Do any reliable sources still call the vessel Nerpa? --BDD (talk) 22:43, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Chakra is Akula-I Improved and not Akula-II, there is only one Akula-II ever built that is "K-157 Vepr"
Chakra is "Akula-I Improved" and not Akula-II, there is only one Akula-II ever built that is "K-157 Vepr". It is correct to refer to it as "Project 971-I" a subdivision of "Project 971". Do not refer to it as Akula-II class. This is a wide misconception. standardengineer (talk) 13:35, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

I have contacted an expert and will write back with a reputed cite. standardengineer (talk) 14:16, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Submarines of the Soviet and Russian Navies, 1945-1991 Vol. III by Yuri Apalkov, says explicitly that Nerpa/Chakra is an Akula I Improved Pr. 971I hull. standardengineer (talk) 14:43, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Russian submarine Nerpa (K-152). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081015073949/http://www.pinnipeds.org:80/species/baikal.htm to http://www.pinnipeds.org/species/baikal.htm

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