Talk:Rust in Peace/Archive 1

"Holy Wars"
In all actuality the song begins with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and then briefly shifts to the Northern Ireland conflict before transferring to the Punisher story. --BlueGlowGuardian 03:07, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

"Holy Wars" was written about the N. Ireland conflict, not Israel

The link at the bottom of the page, where there's a demonstration of how to play the holy wars riff, who ever put it there has some issues. the guy playing the riff is making some serious mistakes in the opening riff, and in the subsequent main riff that follows. either put in another, more appropriate demonstration, or take it off entirely. PLEASE! LyTe 20:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The demonstration of 'Holy Wars' is just totally wrong, it's like the guy has never even heard the song!!! Also, the lyrics to 'Holy Wars' mention Israel: 'Don't look now to Israel, it might be your homeland'.


 * Ok, I removed this link. It was an eyesore (more like an Earsore) and horridly wrong. LyTe 09:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Have you people ever even seen the music video for Holy Wars?? It is so clearly in the desert you would have to be on drugs to think its anywhere else. It is definatly about the Palestinian conflict with Israel, and nothing else. I am inclined to say that interview is just low-grade crap that is probably made up with a real Mustaine interview mixed in. Although, really anything is possible, cause why would someone try to glorify the IRA. The IRA are well.......this shouldn't be the page to discuss it on. -8/09 RATTMAN28

Q: DO YOU EVER REGRET SAYING THINGS YOU SHOULDN'T? LIKE THAT TIME IN NORTHERN IRELAND YOU DEDICATED A SONG TO THE IRA? Dave:"You know what? I don't regret that at all! Someone else told me what was going on and I was just repeating what I'd been told. All I knew was the way the guy explained it to me. I was backstage drinking Guinness - and remember I'm used to American beer - I've had a few of them and they're bootlegging T-shirts outside so I say, 'You've gotta stop that!'. The guy goes, 'Oh, that's for The Cause'. So I say, 'What's The Cause?'. This is how simply he explained it: he said The Cause is about prejudiced religion. The Catholics and the Protestants are fighting and one religion thinks it's better than the other religion. And I went, 'Well that's fucking stupid!'. By then we'd had some pot and vodka and probably a little blow and I went up onstage and when we played 'Anarchy [In The UK]' I said, This one's for The Cause!'. I woke up the next day in Dublin and no-one would talk to me! People were like, 'Don't you know what you did last night? We were taken out of town in a bulletproof bus!'. I had remorse for the fighting among the kids at the show, but I don't regret what I said."
 * have you even listened to the song? it does nothing of the sort! and the video has shots from the desert, yes. but also of dave skydiving. and news reels from around the world. and the band playing in a hangar without any shirts on. stop reading too much into things like Video clips. Dave mustaine was in Northern Ireland to preform with megadeth, and heard people are bootlegging megadeth T-Shirts for "the Cause". here's an excerpt from the interview (the song he preformed was Anarchy, btw):

yea i read that crap on that link, and its probably crap. I mean the thing is supposed to be translated from spanish (it says so on the bottom of it), and its about northern ireland, i mean come on its probably just BS. I think it should just be deleted altogether, the supposed contradictions i mean. Where did you even find that thing anyway?? And dude, with lyrics in the song about israel and the desert and everything...just stop trying to fool everyone into thinking this glorification about northern ireland's IRA is from Dave Mustaine. And some other fundamental points about it having nothing to do with the IRA.

Brother will kill brother Spilling blood across the land Killing for religion Something I don't understand

Fools like me, who cross the sea And come to foreign lands Ask the sheep, for their beliefs Do you kill on God's command?

A country that's divided Surely will not stand My past erased, no more disgrace No foolish naive stand

The end is near, it's crystal clear Part of the master plan Don't look now to Israel It might be in your homelands

Holy wars

Ok so theres the lyrics. Hmm, Killing for Religion? A, if i recall correctly, the IRA is trying to unite Ireland, regardless of being Protestant or Catholic. So how the hell could it possibly make sense to be about the IRA?? Well I think im just going to delete that section, its obviously BS, and if you dont see it oh well...


 * "However though, this interview seems to make huge contradictions to the music video. The music video for Holy Wars clearly shows conflict in the desert. Also the people in it seem to appear to be much more middle eastern in appearence, and nothing like anyone from Northern Ireland or from the British Isles either. Also there is a distinctly Middle Eastern sounding lead line seperating Holy Wars and the Punishment due."when people start making their own thesis for what the video means, it turns around to bite them. infact, if you watch the video, it also features the band in an airplane hangar, so the song must also refer to people who work in hangars, right? besides, saying that the solo carries middle-eastern influence, thus deducting that the song is about Israel is more than childish. I happen to be an israeli, and I've read countless articles about this song, all pertaining to the Northern Ireland dispute, all denouncing that Israel has anything to do with the song, other than what mustaine wrote: "Don't look now to Israel, It might be your homeland". granted, Dave's lyric writing can be fairly complex at times, but this is as simple as it goes. this song can be reflected through so many conflicts, and yet the man himself said, in his words, what this song was orignally written about. using creative liscence on other peoples Ideas, no matter how "middle-eastern" the video looks (and actually, it also has some images from cambodia, korea, soldiers training et al), is really grating. this paragraph needs some editing, IMO.LyTe 07:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Dude, just forget about that stupid article, its obviously CRAP as mentioned above, and it really just doesn't belong as a source on wikipedia. and don't give me that bs about u being israeli, don't try to get people to think your one just to benefit your argument, that's weak dude. Your probably some Irish kid if anything trying to glorify the IRA's now defunct cause. Enough is enough, just forget about that stupid link and the bs spanish article from a really really piss poor source. and also, they were if anything, just putting war violence in the video to help exhibit the theme of the video. and when is the band in an airplane hangar? I really doubt u have seen the video more than once like ten years ago. they are jumping out of the plane on that headbangers ball megadeth special. and the solo more than anything sounds close to a mid east influence, marty would know how to pull that off easy. but to say its childish? wtf r u on? you would have to be an idiot to think this video isnt about the Arab Israeli conflict.

I bet who ever stuck that fake article in here is enjoying a good laugh watching you defending it, cause anyone with half a brain and with any prior knowledge to Megadeth will know that it was without any doubt is about the Arab Israeli Conflict. The consencous is that your wrong and that most of the people who have contributed to the discussion believe that it has nothing to do with Ireland.

THE SONG HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH NORTHERN IRELAND, END OF STORY DAMMIT!!!!

AND STOP REVERTING IT, IT ISNT ARGUABLE!!!


 * So now you think I'm Irish. glorious deduction skills. wow. why would I defend Israel to promote Ireland, prey tell, you imbecile? LyTe 09:02, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that considering that many people disagree, it's fair to leave a note in parentheses saying that one could interpret it as being about Northern Ireland. I don't think it is, and if we leave it that way, the article doesn't say so either, but simply mentions that some people see it that way. Saintamh 09:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * dude its quite obvious that that interview is garbage, and if you would ever bother to get off ur ass and watch the music video or read the lyrics you can tell that the goddamn IRA has absolutly nothing to do with the song. like seriously, before you go revert my edit again, go watch the video and read the lyrics, and then if you can that is, give me a decent argument as to how this song has anything to do with that. dont give me some bullshit about how it needs to be included. i mean if thats ur argument, we might as well say that it is also arguable that the holocaust never happened, and of course it isnt. so stop reverting this, your dead wrong, and it is completely unarguable, ur just acting like some raging asshole by doing this and messing with average joe smith that comes across that and reads it. i refuse to let every joe smith think that northern ireland is part of that song, mustaine never wrote anything about it, so forget this already.


 * You didn't get my point. I have watched the video, I have read the lyrics, I don't believe it has anything to do with the IRA. I don't believe holocaust deniers either, but I still think it's appropriate for Wikipedia to have an article about their theories, since there are apparently many people who believe them. Anyway, I'm not going to get into an argument over the meaning of the lyrics of a Megadeth song. I'm not going to revert your latest edit. Saintamh 15:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

You know, I came back to read this argument and realized something. you obviously know everything to know about megadeth, so an article quoting Dave Mustaine is Probably CRAP! Ok. any other bright deductions congugating the C.R.A.P. Verb, or would you like to contribute somthing a little more condusive and back your argument with somthing other than "oh yeah, I read that article and it's obviously crap, since I don't believe it, so it's crap. you don't think the same way I do, so what you're thinking is crap!". sigh.

I Agree with Saintamh about having the disputed point in the article put out so people can have their own opinions voiced here. after all, Wiki is not about what YOU think is right, or I think is right, when it comes to intangible song meanings like this one. oh, just for kicks, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict takes place in places other than the desert, so your point of the video showing people in the desert obviously making it Israel is MOOT. if you knew half a thing about israel, you'd know that most if not all palestinians DONT LIVE IN THE DESERT! hell, Gaza is maybe near Egypt, but last time I checked, it's pretty green there. oh, one other thing, learn how to sign your effing username. at least stand behind your posts.LyTe 08:59, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Vocals for Rust In Peace/Polaris
I picked up the remaster of Rust in Peace a few days ago, and I am seriously wondering if the vocals for "Rust In Peace...Polaris" are the original vocals or not. I knew beforehand about the issues with the other songs that Dave had to re-work, but when I listen to the remastered RIP/P, there are nuances to the enunciations and pacing that I don't remember hearing in the original release. Did Dave have to do some tinkering with this song as well as the others, or did the re-master do such a good job of cleaning up his vocal track that it makes it sound brand new? Willbyr 18:25, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I think I read somewhere that dave mentioned that when he came to the studio to remaster "rip", he found out that all the vocal tracks and some of the guitar tracks are gone, so he had to redo them all over again. hence the changes in pace and intonations. LyTe 20:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

yeah i read somewhere in an interview that holy wars is about n ireland, the less obvious choice sort of. but anyway classic song

also if you want really detailed info about the making of this album, the remastered version from 2004 has tons of info. he says the name "rust in peace" came from a bumper sticker that he saw that said "may all your nuclear weapons rust in peace"

my other thing is, this sounds weird but maybe there could be like a list of 10 totally essential thrash metal cds. that would be a cool wiki page.

Links to pages with song lyrics
Is it permissible to post links to pages with song lyrics? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 02:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Not if they're copyright violations (most online sources are). If they're listed on megadeth.com or some official site, that might be okay. -- nae'blis 19:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * well they're all on megadeth.com |1Д narchistPig (talk) 00:41, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Perspective
"Along with Metallica's Master of Puppets and Slayer's Reign in Blood, Rust in Peace is one of the most critically lauded thrash metal albums. Many Megadeth fans consider it to represent the high-point in the band's career."

This paragraph needs to have 'Rust in Peace' replaced by 'Peace Sells' and be moved to that article. ;) I know of no one (other than the author) who would mention Rust in Peace in the same breath as Master of Puppets and Reign in Blood. Rust is mostly excellent, but it doesn't exist on the same plane. However 'many' fans would say that, they are not the majority and *most* fans would say "If it isn't even Megadeth's best/most important album, it can't possibly be one of the very best of all time."

And even if one argued Rust was somehow better in intrinsic quality, it's like saying "Along with the Me109 and Spitfire, the F-16 is one of the most critically lauded fighter planes." One of these things is not like the others and 'P-51' is obviously what goes there.

-74.227.120.32 18:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

The album does represent Megadeth at their peak from this Metallica/Megadeth fan's point of view. For me Metallica didn't peak at Puppets anyway, they peaked at Justice. Both RIP and Justice are each band's respective show-off albums, unparalelled in complexity and skill (and therefore, in my opinion, the best).--Jeff79 01:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey, i am the one who wrote that line bout rust in peace being along with master of puppets and reign of blood. what i said was that it was one of the most critically lauded thrash metal releases, while peace sells was a great album, most reviewers place rust in peace on top mainly due to the musical virtuosity on rip thats lacking in peace sells. If you take a look around at reviewers like allmusic and so on rip is usually named as one of the finest thrash metal albums, and most metal sites rank it that way too. i am not going to revert the article as it previously was as i do not want to start an edit war, however the majority of critical opinion will place rip along with reign in blood and master of puppets together. been an awfully long reply, so anyone who wants to continue the discussion is welcome.(RIP)
 * I'd have to agree. They are considered the big 3 albums of the big 3 American thrash metal bands.--Jeff79 00:26, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Dawn Patrol
There is some guitar work in Dawn Patrol, it's just not very prominent.


 * I don't think so.--Jeff79 01:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, yes there is, just listen to the final riff of the song, when it ends (also sometime during the middle of the song). Dan 18:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That riff is only on the remastered version, Doppelganger 19:37, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Revamping article.
I am going to be working on the article extensively. I've been adding sources and new sections. My goal is to get this article to Good Article status. Doppelganger 01:14, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks good, but there are a lot of references to http://megadeth.rockmetal.art.pl now, which seems to be a fan site (?), whose material isn't that reliable. Grinder0-0 14:16, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I understand, I've been trying to find more sources. Most of the sources I found on the Megadeth article. Doppelganger 23:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Failed GA nomination
GA nomination quick-failed due to lack of citations, presence of a 'citation needed' tag, and improper formatting of existing citations. Didn't proceed to evaluate further. Perhaps try a Peer Review. Carson 23:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Heavy metal??
How can you class this album as heavy metal as well as thrash, its basically saying this album is similar in sound to United Abominations and The System Has Failed when it isn't. Like Peace Sells... but Who's Buying? Rust In Peace is a thrash album, so just thrash metal on its own accurately sums up the album as a whole.86.150.228.35 (talk) 16:02, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The consensus of other editors is ti have it remain in the article. The Real Libs-speak politely 16:11, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Please show me that discussion. It's nowhere close heavy/thrash metal. 78.62.114.241 (talk) 09:38, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

this album is pure thrash —Preceding unsigned comment added by Littlecheeze502 (talk • contribs) 08:19, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Take No Prisoners
Is this song really about prisoners of war, as stated here? I thought it was about US Army Veterans being more or less abandonded by the government when they came back from the war. --Fiskpinne (talk) 09:15, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Progressive Metal
Shouldn't the genre 'progressive metal' be added to the genres of this album? This album has one of the most progressive musical arrangements in megadeth's discography and is pretty typical for a thrash metal album with guitar solos featured on and off and dense musical passages. Some of the most notable songs would be, holy wars, hangar 18, five magics and a few others. There are some references to this too. AllMusic called it megadeth's strongest musical effort. I believe that this album should be labelled as progressive metal along with thrash metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.245.179.32 (talk) 14:30, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

New propose
Why don't someone write a page about the third song Take No Prisoners. It's one of those songs that must have their own page because of it's great legacy. And beside it rocks.--95.156.10.43 (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know that its legacy is distinct from the album as a whole, certainly not on the same level as "Holy Wars..." or "Hangar 18". And while I do like the song, "it rocks" is not a suitable reason to create a page on the song. If you have reliable sources to cite for such an article, then we can talk. Until such a time, I think this article is sufficient.--L1A1 FAL (talk) 19:19, 3 October 2012 (UTC)