Talk:Ruthenian nobility

Please don't add unreferenced content about the "Belarusian nobility"
Belarusian nobility article was such a mess that it was deleted. This article was created instead. As I said in the AfD, the concept of Belarusian nobility may be notable - but please use reliable sources while discussing it. OR and nationalist pov pushing is not welcome. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 05:48, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * First of all, I looked at the discussion and I didn't see a majority for deleting the article, but whatever. Second, this article does include a lot of important information and I think the best thing is to edit it. I don't see any nationalism in there, and I agree it should be referenced and partly re-written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.99.144.141 (talk) 15:30, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Per WP:V and WP:OR, unreferenced information may be and often is, deleted. It doesn't matter if it "looks good"; our policies is to reference it. The old article waited years for the content to be referenced; either nobody cared or nobody could reference it. You are welcome to add or restore content, but please, reference it first. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 00:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

The information from the Belarusian nobility article definitely should be here. It's a huge part of the Ruthenian nobility topic. In fact, most Ruthenian nobility was from Belarus. I checked the claim made here there was not a majority to delete the Belarusian nobility article, and it's true. I agree the old article was a mess, yet it also had a lot of valuable information and references. Instead of deleting the information, makes suggestions to improve it. Put citation needed tags or even better find the references!

Also, the argument that the Belarusian nobility article was unreferenced is exaggerated. Most of it is well referenced! History and Polinization are well referenced sections. The rest can be easily referenced.79.180.31.23 (talk) 19:56, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * No, you still don't understand our guidelines cited above.The current article sticks to high standards by citing every sentence; your text on the contrary has next to inline citations. Anyway, this content was already deleted. If you want to help out, start by adding useful content to existing articles, not by restoring old content that was judged not helpful on this project. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 20:04, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The current article is only two paragraph long, we can't afford to loose so many valuable information. What it makes sense instead of just deleting it is to work on it! I don't see by who this content was judged as "not helpful". Messy, yes, but no one ever said it's not helpful. 79.180.31.23 (talk) 21:41, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

sparsely populated Ruthenia ?
What parts of Ruthenia was sparsely populated or abandoned by native population? answer of that question should be written in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.8.171.19 (talk) 08:03, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Scope
From what point do we speak of "Ruthenian" nobility rather than "Rus'" nobility? This article does not mention a date earlier than "14th century". The linked ukwiki article uk:Українська шляхта, literally "Ukrainian szlachta", starts the section on "Формування шляхти" (formation of the szlachta) with "At the end of the 14th century, almost the entire territory of Ukraine became part of the Lithuanian-Rus' state." The previous section mentions "1387" as a precise date, although the end of the Galician–Volhynian Wars in 1349 and the Battle of Blue Waters of 1362/3 are possible earlier dates for this incorporation (at least in a territorial sense). For its part, the Szlachta itself mentions 1333 is the first significant date for the development of the szlachta in Poland, while in 1274, Polish nobles were still rycerz (from German Ritter, meaning "knight"). Finally, Szlachta starts with "After the principalities of Halych and Volhynia became integrated with the Grand Duchy, Ruthenia's nobility gradually rendered loyalty to [Lithuania]." So, lots of different dates, but they all point to the 14th century and no earlier. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:08, 8 May 2023 (UTC)