Talk:Ryan Giggs/Archive 2

Vandalism
I correted a bit of vandalism which stated that RG GF was HARRIET HARMAN. There were a couple of other changes made re 19810 being changed to 1990 and accrington Stanley being substituted for another oteam. I've no idea if these are right or wrong and hope that the editors who know about Giggs will check these out.89.240.246.207 (talk) 22:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Intro
..is far too long. Whilding87 00:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but what does this mean? Am I just bad at English? "Giggs is Manchester United's longest-serving current player, but unfortunately suffers from a severe lack of talent."Foreverkeeper2 (talk) 16:18, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Image
Is there any image which can be used for this article? Newone 04:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Image:Ryan Giggs.jpg? Kjetil r 18:31, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

You don't have to have English parents or grandparents to play for England
giggs was eligible to play for england but didn't because he's welsh through and through he's said himself on his icons homepage. clean up please! plus as has been discussed earlier his grandfather was african


 * What is so difficult to understand about this? Neither Giggs himself, nor either of his parents, nor any of his grandparents, were born in England. HE NEVER WAS ELIGIBLE TO PLAY FOR ENGLAND. For Giggs the old Rule 18 of the FIFA Regulations Governing the Application of Statutes, in effect from the early 1960s until 31 December 2003 would have applied:


 * “1. Any player who is a naturalised citizen of a country in virtue of that country's laws shall be eligible to play for a national or representative team of that country.


 * “ 2. If a player has been included in a national or representative team of a country for which he is eligible to play pursuant to §1, he shall not be permitted to take part in an international match for another country. Accordingly, any player who is qualified to play for more than one national association (i.e. who has dual nationality) will be deemed to have committed himself to one association only when he plays his first international match in an official competition (at any level) for that association.


 * “ 3. The only players exempt from this provision are those whose nationality has been changed not voluntarily but as the result of an international decree either granting independence to a region or ceding part of one country to another.”


 * For younger players, the new Rule 15, in effect since 1 January 2004 applies:


 * "1. Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of his country. The Executive Committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibility for any Player whose nationality entitles him to represent more than one Association.


 * "2. As a general rule, any Player who has already represented one Association (either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category may not play an international match with another Association team.


 * "3. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:


 * "(a) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A” international level for his current Association and if, at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions.


 * "(b) Any Player who has already acquired eligibility to play for one Association but has another nationality imposed upon him by a government authority, is also entitled to change associations. This provision is not subject to any age limits.


 * "4. Any Player who wishes to exercise this right to change Associations shall submit a written and substantiated request to the FIFA general secretariat. After submitting the request, the player is no longer qualified to play for his current Association’s team.  The Players’ Status Committee shall decide on the request. The committee’s decision may be brought before the Appeal Committee. The Regulations for the Status and Transfer of Players contain more detailed provisions.
 * "5. Any Players who have already had their 21st birthday at the time of implementation of these provisions and who fulfil the requirements in par. 3 (a) are also entitled to submit such a request to change Associations. This entitlement will expire definitively twelve months after implementation of this provision."


 * So players can switch once between countries for which they are eligible once before they are 21. However, for players eligible to play for the British home nations, since they only have once citizenship between them, the 1993 agreement between the 4 FAs still applies, which provides that a player holding a British passport is eligible to play for the country of his birth, the country of the birth of either of his natural parents or the country of birth of any of his natural grandparents. If the player, his natural parents and his natural grandparents were born  outside the U.K., he may play for the home country of his choice.  -- Arwel (talk) 20:25, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think this needs to be explained briefly in a footnote. I read the sentences "Lawrie McMenemy, then-coach of the England under-21 team, checked to see whether Giggs was eligible to play for England. However, he was rebuffed after finding that Giggs had no English grandparents, and was only available to play for Wales." I was immediately puzzled, because there was no subsequent explanation as to why Giggs was then qualified to play for England later on. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 16:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Giggs wasn't qualified to play for England, that's the whole point. He played for England Schoolboys, which is an entirely different thing, because he went to school in England, but because of the agreement that the Home Nations have between each other, although FIFA's rules state that any British citizen can play for England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, Giggs was only eligible to play for Wales. – PeeJay 01:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, the sentence I quoted clearly states that before Giggs reached the age of 21 years, he could not play for England and only for Wales. However, the article does not subsequently explain why Giggs could then represent England as an adult, and is therefore a little confusing for someone who doesn't know much about football (like me). For instance, the "International career" section is written on the assumption that Giggs can play for England (which of course he can), and does not explain how the position changed once he became an adult. I am suggesting that a summary of the above rules, set out above by Arwel, be mentioned somewhere in the article, even if it just in a footnote. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 07:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * No, the sentence you quoted states that the manager of the England Under-21 team checked to see if Giggs could play for that country at any level, not just under-21. The article doesn't explain why Giggs could represent England as an adult because he couldn't play for England as an adult; or as a child, or as a geriatric. Giggs is Welsh. – PeeJay 11:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, so I've completely misunderstood the situation. Giggs has never played for England internationally, and the "International career" deals with his appearances for Wales. Gotcha. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 15:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Infobox image
User Orangina2/87.244.92.100 keeps removing the image from the infobox. Granted, it's by no means a professional grade photo, But "not particularly good" is not a particularly good reason for removing the image when it is serviceable and adequately shows what Giggs looks like. Unless you have a better reason for removing the image or you can find a better free license alternative, please leave it alone. --Ytny (talk) 14:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I second that. Chensiyuan 14:32, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Wikipedia giggs02.jpg
Image:Wikipedia giggs02.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Appearances
Giggs' appearances for Man Utd seems to have a different figure for every "reliable source" that you go to. One says 504 league appearances, one says 443, the infobox says 722, Manutd.com says 717 total appearances (including Charity Shields and Super Cups), as does the BBC. The BBC says he's been a sub 54 times, this site 60. I'm going to match everything up with the BBC site and put it as a reference now. If there are any problems with this, please discuss them here. --El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 12:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * surely everything should be matched to what man utd say, no?? the man utd page here has giggs at over 740 games (743 if i remember correctly, as of time of writing this) yet this page states over 500. why is there a difference? does this page only take league appearances, or something like that? if so, maybe this should be stated? it's confusing reading one number and then the player page has a different number. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I take it this question has been clarified with the addition of the new table at the bottom, but does anyone know how many 'Premier League appearances he has? ie. excluding the few games he played for the '91-92 old First Division season? In the article it says his first full appearance was for the Manchester derby, which was on May 4, 1991. Anyone know how many remaining games Man United played after that? I ask because at the moment, Gary Speed apparently holds the record for the most Premier League appearances at 521, which sits uneasy with me as Giggs has got 528 league appearances to his name. If we knew how many he played in the '91-92 season, we could deduce the no. of Premier League appearances. Thanks. Feudonym (talk) 04:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * also, it says he's scored 143 goals in all competitive matches, but it adds up to 144. Can anyone clarify this? Feudonym (talk) 04:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

One club player?
Is Giggs now considered a one club player, its been 15 years, which was the wikipedia criteria? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.183.68.91 (talk) 17:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Age
Giggs was born in 1973 not 1971 as mentioned on this page. I have amended his birth-date to reflect this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.153.167 (talk) 20:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Goals scored
I asked this question earlier but it wasn't answered. Has he scored 144 or 145 for Man U? If you add up the goals scored in the first table it comes up to 145, but it says 144 in the total. And the second table is even worse, the tally comes to 136; apparently he scored 6 extra League Cup goals in those missing years, and the FA Cup tally is 9 but says 10. And finally on top of that, he scored yesterday's pen so that would need updating. If he has scored 145 goals or more, the MUFC Top Goalscorers table would need editing as David Herd is at no. 10 with 145 goals. Hope someone looks into this. Feudonym (talk) 08:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please, visite Stretfordend.co.uk - it is official site of MU's statistics. It lists Giggs' detailed career statistics down to every match he played. All stats are up-to-date.--81.91.48.174 (talk) 18:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

As of today Giggs has a 150 goals for Man U —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lifeisboooring (talk • contribs) 06:08, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Overall, yes, but not in the league ;-) – PeeJay 08:55, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Caps/goals
In the infobox, showed caps and goals from all competitions. Changed it to league stats only. —Zwerker (talk) 21:17, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Dutch ancestry
I just wondered where Giggs gets his dutch ancestry from. Was his grandmother on his father's side from the Netherlands? 213.10.46.8 (talk) 20:46, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Sierra Leone his grandmother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.153.165 (talk) 14:25, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Overview
I don't understand the need for this section. The content itself isn't an issue, but surely if it's important enough to separate from sections of his career, it belongs in the lead? 82.5.72.161 (talk) 00:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Possible citation needed in first paragraph
It says Giggs "is famed as one of the greatest wingers of all time in the game". If that is a quote then it needs to be sourced. If it is merely the opinion of a wikipedia editor then it needs to be removed or reworded. Skip1337 (talk) 10:26, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

British players to win the Champions League twice
This article states in two different places that Giggs is one of a few British Players to win the CL twice. However in one place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Giggs#cite_ref-4) it says the others are Steve McManaman and Owen Hargreaves and then later says there were 6 and lists them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Giggs#Records_.26_other_awards). I believe this fact is pointless and inaccurate and should be removed. There are at least 7 British players from the Forest team that won it twice in 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_European_Cup_Final) and 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_European_Cup_Final) that haven't been included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.106.46.47 (talk) 04:15, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This fact refers to the UEFA Champions League, not the European Champion Clubs' Cup, so those Forest players would not be eligible. However, I do think that the two lists need sorting out, at least so they match each other. – PeeJay 07:56, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, it seems the lists are OK as they are. The first list refers to players who played in and won the Champions League final twice, while the other list simply refers to players who have won the Champions League title. Although Wes Brown and Paul Scholes never played in 1999 and Gary Neville never played in 2008, they are all deemed to have won the title twice, as they all received medals for both title wins. – PeeJay 07:59, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They are the same competition though - when you talk about how many times a team has won it, you include the records for both the time when it was referred to as the "European Champions Clubs' Cup" and the "UEFA Champions League". Even to start with this fact is rather trivial, if you have to restrict it in an uncommon way to make it true that makes it even more silly. I don't think it really adds anything to this article... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.106.46.47 (talk) 16:08, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Corner specialist
There is no mention of Giggs being the main corner taker for both Man United and Wales, being as it has resulted in so many of the team goals, it should be worth mentioning, I also have a free image of giggs taking a corner which I am willing to use to add to the article if needed 13:11, 04 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.124.64.142 (talk)
 * More images are always useful, but I'm not sure that taking corners is that much of a specialist role to need an extensive mention here. After all, Michael Carrick, Wayne Rooney and Nani also take corners for Man Utd to equal, and sometimes greater effect than Giggs. – PeeJay 14:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well maybe the word specialist is a bad one to use but he is a very sucessful corner taker and despite other players recently taking them, he has been the primary taker of corners for years (and sometimes free kicks too), I will upload the image and show it on here as I feel a metion of Gigg's set piece ability is needed 16:01, 05 December 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:RyanGiggs.jpg|thumb]]

If anyone knows how to remove the copyright tag from it I'd be grateful, its a picture I took myself. and can anyone fit it into the article for me, not sure on the format. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adzer (talk • contribs) 13:41, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Consecutive Champions League goals vs. stats table
The records etc. area states that he has scored in twelve consecutive CL seasons. However the stats table has him scoring in only eleven. Clearly something is wrong - not sure exactly what, though! – BoB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.72.156.26 (talk) 10:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You are quite correct. Since Giggs did not score in the 2007-08 CL and United weren't involved in the 1995-96 tournament, he has only scored in 11 consecutive CL tournaments. – PeeJay 12:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Champions League goals
I just have to ask, for the 2007-2008 season it says Giggs got no goals in the Champions league. However he did score a penalty in the shoot out against Chelsea. Does that not count as a goal?

29-Jan-09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.192.2 (talk) 00:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't. – LATICS   talk  00:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

What happened to this quote?
By Alessandro Del Piero, "This is embarrassing to say but I have cried twice in my life watching a football player; the first one was Roberto (Baggio) and the second was Ryan Giggs" (source: http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=753361.html)

It's quite rare for a top footballer to give another top footballer such an "accolade".

Pretty sure I saw it before on here, but deleted, because it's not a fact? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.100.2 (talk) 06:12, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

If he said it, then its fact, that it is Del Piero's opinion! --2.97.17.22 (talk) 12:19, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Scored in every year of Premiership?
I think RG is the only person to have scored in every season of the Premiership? Is this correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.17.17 (talk) 21:51, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is correct. Does it not say so in the article? – PeeJay 22:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Not eligible for Sierra Leone
From the relevant pre-2004 FIFA Statutes:

"FIFA Regulations Regarding the Eligibility and Release of International Players

Regulations Governing the Application of Statutes

Chapter VIII. Nationality of Players

Art. 18

1. Any player who is a naturalised citizen of a country in virtue of that country's laws shall be eligible to play for a national or representative team of that country.

2. If a player has been included in a national or representative team of a country for which he is eligible to play pursuant to §1, he shall not be permitted to take part in an international match for another country. Accordingly, any player who is qualified to play for more than one national association (i.e. who has dual nationality) will be deemed to have committed himself to one association only when he plays his first international match in an official competition (at any level) for that association.

3. The only players exempt from this provision are those whose nationality has been changed not voluntarily but as the result of an international decree either granting independence to a region or ceding part of one country to another."

In other words it is irrelevant if his grandfather was from Sierra Leone or not. Only British citizens are traditionally separated according to their bloodlines, because according to the FIFA rules they would be eligible to represent any Home Nation. To represent Sierra Leone one would have to be a citizen of Sierra Leone (and to represent Wales one has to be a British citizen). -91.32.196.59 (talk) 13:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Problem with navbox
There's a problem with the Ryan Giggs navbox at the bottom of the article which I have no idea how to fix. Also, I've made a comment at "umm you dont have to have english parents or grand parents to play for england" above, suggesting that part of the article be clarified. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 16:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

"Sir Ryan Giggs" campaign
We do not need to talk about some random bloke's campaign to get Giggs knighted in an encyclopaedic article. There is nothing notable about this whatsoever. – PeeJay 19:50, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

League Cup 2009/2010
Did Giggs not get a winners medal for his 2 apps and 1 goal in the 09/10 League Cup? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.152.58 (talk) 20:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Not as far as we know. The only people we know for certain got League Cup winners medals are those who climbed the 107 steps at Wembley on 28 February. – PeeJay 21:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Medal or no medal, the following shoud be added to Gigg's 'Records';

Only Manchester United player to have played in all 4 League Cup winning teams.--92.24.152.58 (talk) 19:36, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Why? He wasn't part of the team that won this year's final. Sure, he played a part in the earlier rounds, but he didn't play any part in the final. – PeeJay 21:45, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Do you have to play in the final to pick up a winners medal??? --2.97.17.22 (talk) 12:17, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't know. However, we do know for certain that the players who climbed the steps at Wembley after the final got medals, and Giggs wasn't one of them. – PeeJay 14:02, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

The Number of goals scored
Why are only Giggs' premire league goals displayed in the infobox. What's wrong with displaying the others. It's illogical. he has scored 154 goals and there worth mentioning. Aren't they? only League goals doesn't make sense.(Wiki id2 (talk) 20:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC))
 * For consistency with players from the early years of football, only league goals are displayed. Furthermore, since old players didn't have as many cup competitions to compete in, only listing the league goals is deemed a fairer method of comparison. – PeeJay 17:55, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Assault of Davinia Taylor
Someone keeps editing out the information that was public news in 1997- that of Giggs being involved in assaulting then girlfriend Davinia Taylor in a nightclub, that was reported by many newspapers. This biased deliberate attempt to silence this piece of information is not in line with wikipedia's free information and fairness guidelines, and leads to suspcions of truth concealing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.93.165.193 (talk) 12:51, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Early years
The second two paragraphs of this section do not have any references whatsoever and refs 7 and 8 are broken. For example, what is the source for the following claim: "Giggs signed there and then for a record non-professional transfer fee of £350,000, which is still the highest ever."? Decorativeedison (talk) 01:23, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Highpoint of 1998/99 season
It says that his highpoint of the 1998/99 season was setting up the champions league final gaol. Unless hes said other wise (which it doesn't appear he has), I'd have thought that the highlight would have been this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quI_LkMj4HI in the 1999 FA Cup semi replay., where he sent United to the final. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muncha1 (talk • contribs) 00:42, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Appearances
According to the official United website, Giggs has 862 appearances and 158 goals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.207.59 (talk) 20:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

– HonorTheKing (talk) 22:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The infobox is used for league games only, while "Career statistics" shows all, including cups.