Talk:Ryanverse

Video games
Should the article contain a mention of the fact that the universe is extended in the Ghost Recon video games? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.79.182 (talk) 18:57, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Prior deletion
As much as I love Clancy's works, this article has been deleted before. Expect the same here. // 3R1C 04:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Plot summaries
There is no reason to duplicate detailed plot summaries here. Each of these books has an article of its own, and having the summaries there is sufficient ("long live the wikilink!") Not a dog 03:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Third opinion

 * I would say yes, plot summaries are appropriate in this article, but they should be much shorter, in light of the fact that wiki-linked articles exist. I would say, keep it to a small paragraph per entry, say 4-5 sentences or so.  Smee 03:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC).
 * For example, The Simpsons (season 17). Smee 03:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Agree. Let's get to work. I'm starting tonight (if I have time). --Bear and Dragon 11:28, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Red Rabbit Timeline irregularities
Nailing down the time setting for 'Red Rabbit' seems very difficult. Here are some problematic cultural references Clancy makes that just don't make sense.  Jack Ryan buys Starbucks stock at the IPO (which actually happened in 1992) Orioles have 'rookie shortstop' (inferred to reference Cal Ripken Jr, whose rookie year was 1981) (Note: Clancy is off either way, but Ripken was the 1982 AL Rookie of the Year, which is usually considered his "rookie" season. He did play in a handful of 1981 games, but technically, he wasn't a shortstop then; he played 3rd base until midway through the 1982 season Zlinedavid (talk) 18:46, 6 September 2020 (UTC)) Orioles win MLB World Series (which happened in 1983) Suslov died (actually occurred in January 1982)  You would think an author of Clancy's caliber would have done a little more research on the side facts he presents in the book to set it in the correct time line.

-*-

But why, why 1982? It must be spring 1981, 'cause the attempt on John Paul II took place at 13 may 1981. In the book, Zajcew says that for last 2 years the name of Karol Wojtyla has not appeared, then he (Zajcew) says that they noticed the Pope's pilgirmage to Poland, which took place in June 1979 - so, 1979 plus 2 years, that's 1981. It must be spring 1981.

One additional factor. If we are to assume that the Prince and Princess of Wales in Patriot Games are Charles and Diana (and I don't recall anything that would contradict this), their first child had just recently been born when that novel took place. That puts Patriot Games taking place in 1982, and Red Rabbit is supposed to have taken place between the events of Patriot Games and Hunt for Red October.

Zlinedavid (talk) 17:36, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Timeline
I've edited the dates given for the events of the books after re-reading The Sum of All Fears; prior to doing so I'd been having problems reconciling all the events but now it seems logical, when you add it to facts from other books. To wit:

- Clear and Present Danger - Takes place in an election year, at end Fowler elected president. = could be either 1988 or 1992, but...

- The Sum of All Fears - "Almost two years" after Fowler's election November; climax at Super Bowl, mention prior presidents Regan and Bush (first mention of actual Presidents, BTW, IIRC), Desert Storm has occured = late 1994-January/February 1995 (fixed date).

- Debt of Honor/Executive Orders - Two years after Ryan resigned from Government service (occured at end of SoAF). = starts in early 1997. Also I believe it was in EO that a series of recent Presidents was mentioned - it was Regan, Bush, Fowler, Durling and Ryan, IIRC.

- Rainbow Six - Sydney Olympics, also when Popov reads the label on his vaccination the label states 2000. = 2000 (fixed date).

So, far from being as muddled as I feared, the chronology actually falls together easily and makes sense (as long as you ignore the dreadful and inconsistant both with regards to OTL and within the Ryanverse Red Rabbit, which is an entirely different can o' worms...).

- Aerobird Target locked - Fox One! 19:44, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * CaPD takes place in 1988. The unnamed President tried to be re-elected. Since he was president during HfRO in 1984 something, CaPD can't take place in 1992 becasue that would be his third term and that just don't happend.

-Cardinal of the Kremlin has to be 1987, as there is reference to tracking a satellite launched December 26, 1986

Sum of all Fears date
The Sum of all Fears, however, has to take place in 1991 due to the existence of the Soviet Union and the mentioning of the Persian Gulf War. Unless the USSR collapsed at a later date in the Clancy universe? Dunno.

The timeline is impossible.
After The Sum of All Fears, Tom Clancy really confused himself many times over, and the dates in the books is at best a result of him smoking the magic dragon.

SoAF takes place two years after CaPD and one year before Sovjets fall. That should be 90. DoH takes place two years after SoAF and 8 months before the Election. That should be the beginning of 92. The Gulf War is mentioned. EO takes place at the same day as the end of DoH, and ends before the election is over. That should still be 92. TBatD takes place less than one year after EO, and before the winder has begun. That is late 92, the same year as both DoH and EO. Now it get's confusing. The war of Serbia (98) has happend, yet this is 93. Ryan speaks of the Trade Reform Act as it took place years ago, but it took place in DoH that was just one year before. And John Clark speaks of RAINBOW SIX starting years ago, but the book Rainbow Six started not long after EO, and that is mere months before TBatD. So I take away all years after TSoaF. When does TotT take place, btw?80.251.192.2 13:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

--I would assume that Executive Orders takes place in 1996 at the earliest, since one of the doctors makes reference to a wargame called "Bio War 95", which I've always assumed indicated the year it took place. That also fits the less than a year until the presidential election (as said in DoH). 68.157.60.50 20:22, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I found this quote by Tom Clancy himself, about him screwing up the timeline. I don't know how to put it into the text so someone else do it.

http://www.clancyfaq.com/08262002Clancy.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.138.133.60 (talk) 23:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not possible to make a timeline completely consistent because: - He's often inconsistent even within the same book - "creeping reality bleed" to coin a phrase - events from the real world tend to bleed over into the history of the Ryanverse a few years down the line.

However, a pretty consistent timeline (consistent with the ages of the kids, the dates of presidential elections and the Sydney Olympics) is:

"Clear and Present Danger" - 1992 "Sum of All Fears" - 1994-1995 "Debt of Honour" - 1997-end of 1998 "Executive Orders" - end of 1998 - mid 1999 "Rainbow Six" - 2000 "The Bear and the Dragon" - 2001 "Teeth of the Tiger" ~2008

As of "The Sum of All Fears", Clancy seems to have intended there to be a President between Bush Snr and Fowler to be the unnamed President of "Clear and Present Danger" (Fowler muses on former Presidents - Reagan, Bush, and his immediate predecessor). By "Executive Orders", it jumps straight from Bush to Fowler

The state of the Soviet Union is not really an issue - Narmonov must have held it together longer than Gorbachev did in this reality (until at least 1995). As cited earlier, Rainbow Six is explicitly set in 2000 (Popov's vaccine is dated 21st November 2000). Note that in the Ryanverse, the Sydney Olympics must have ended a couple of months later than they did in our world.

The above sequence of dates is consistent with the ages of Little Jack, Sally and Katie. AdrianCooke 22:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I share your idea on the presidential succession, but that timeline doesn't stay consistent with the age of the kids. Sally is 3 in Patriot Games, which in all likelihood, takes place in 1982. Assuming that the Prince & Princess of Wales in Patriot Games are Charles & Diana, their first child (Prince William) was born in 1982, and it is mentioned that he is an infant during that novel. In Executive Orders and The Bear and the Dragon, Sally is being mentioned as "just starting to date" and is clearly still in high school, based on her transportation schedule. Based on that, she's probably around the ages of 14-16. If Executive Orders takes place in 1999, Sally would be almost 21.

Jack Jr. is portrayed as a recent college grad in The Teeth Of The Tiger. Again, assuming he is born in 1983, setting Teeth of the Tiger in 2008 is a bit late, since Jack would likely have graduated around 2005-2006 (assuming 4 or 5 years for a bachelor's degree).

Zlinedavid (talk) 17:48, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Presidents
I'm deleting Ronald Reagan from the list of Presidents. He isn't one of the "explicitly shown" as he doesn't appear in either Patriot Games or Red Rabbit, and I think the paragraph beneath the list of presidents explains his role in the series well enough, though feel free to change if you feel otherwise.


 * I deleted that paragraph beneath thingy, because since George Bush is mentioned as a president in Rainbow Six that paragraph doesn't make any sense. 18:12, 11 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sjalvastefan (talk • contribs)

I'm also deleting Robby Jackson, though I'm happy to talk further on this. It was my impression that he'd been shot by the Klansman while on the campaign trail, and thus have never made it into office. This is supported in Teeth of the Tiger by Gerry Hendley saying "this new guy (Kealty) only happened by accident." This probably means that Jackson was running against Kealty, who won by default when Jackson was killed (the same way Bobby Kennedy was expected by many to win in 1968, but when he was shot, the Dems nominated Humphrey and the election went to Nixon). The only way Kealty could have won the presidency, if Robby had been in office when he was shot, was if he was Robby's vice-president. That's not very likely considering how much Kealty and the Ryan Administration hated one another. 147.9.201.180 (talk) 18:43, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The hatred is not really a problem, remember that VPs are chosen for political electability reasons. LBJ hated JFK, Teddy Roosevelt was only selected because he was so popular, ... TR later ran against his own VP-cum-President when he hated what he was doing to the country. 70.29.209.121 (talk) 06:53, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

There's a line in Dead or Alive that eludes to the fact that Jackson and Kealty were running against each other: "But even as the votes were being counted and the electoral map inexorably tipped in favor of Kealty....". "Tipped" can be translated as "tipped towards Kealty away from Jackson". Still ambiguous, but would be strange wording if not. Zlinedavid (talk) 18:24, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Robby Jackson was never POTUS. From Chapter 10 of "Dead or Alive": "Robby would have been a great President, but he hadn’t considered the twisted mind of that old Ku Klux Klan bastard who was still waiting to die on Mississippi’s Death Row. Jack had been in the Oval Office on that day—what had it been? Six days before the election, with Robby comfortably ahead in the polls."

With Jack in the Oval Office 6 days before the election, it's pretty clear that he is still president. In all likelihood, he simply announced that he wouldn't run for re-election. He wouldn't have resigned after that, since his VP was dead and they wouldn't conduct a search for a replacement candidate that would serve for just a few months. Having Ryan as a lame duck also fits with the timeline of his setting up the Campus. It gives him more motivation to do so, since he knows Kealty will gut the intelligence community when he takes office. It also gives him the opportunity, since the actions of a lame duck president are often overlooked.

Zlinedavid (talk) 18:24, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

List of presidents
It looks a bit silly to have a list of presidents going back to the eighteenth century. Did Clancy actually change anything before 1977? Also, I think we have to simply accept that it is not possible to build a coherent presidential timeline for these books. There are simply too many internal inconsistencies. I vote to remove the entire list, but I wanted to bring it up here first because it is a big change. --KarlFrei (talk) 11:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the list shows George Dallas apparently succeding James K. Polk, so if that's from the Ryan books then it's a change as early as 1848. But I can't find any reference for it in the article, or thru google. 92.12.78.197 (talk) 01:22, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That list is bogus. Look at some of the things on it: Robby Jackson was never elected president. How the hell did Ross Perot become VP, then President? He's never mentioned in anything. Neither was Jesse Ventura, Evan Bayh or Steve Largent? 5 presidents listed never had a VP, only acting ones. Forget it, I'm removing the list and someone needs to have some references to put it back. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Ryanverse characters
Should there be a "characters in Jack Ryan" page attached to this one somewhere? We don't want to have one for each individual person, but it would help understand the Ryanverse page some. 147.9.234.143 (talk) 06:40, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Sure, that's how many other series work, they have a joint series character list. And a template... so converting Jack Ryan films to Ryanverse would be a good idea. 70.29.209.121 (talk) 06:51, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Timeline graph
84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 70                           WR 71 72  73  74  75  76  77  78  79  80  81          PG 82                                                      RR 83 84  85 HRO 86 87             CK 88                CPD 89 90  91                      SAF 92 93  94  95                               DH 96                                     EO 97 98 99                                           RS 00                                                 BD 01 02 03                                                         TT

Looks to me like he was writing in real time, except for three flashbacks: PG (back 6 years to put Jack Ryan in the CIA); WR (John Clark's back story); RR (last appearance of Jack Ryan). --Uncle Ed (talk) 17:18, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Game series
The Ryanverse would contain Rainbow Six, as well as Ghost Recon and Splinter Cell. The article mentions that the Rainbow Six games are in the Ryanverse, and Ghost Recon and Splinter Cell take place in the same universe as Rainbow Six, which means that all these series in the same universe as the books. That means that the Splinter Cell/Ghost Recon novels are also in the Ryanverse. -- 69.76.14.54 (talk) 07:56, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Merge to Jack Ryan (Tom Clancy)
I've merged the information from the Ryanverse page to Jack Ryan (Tom Clancy). This was for various reasons, including the fact that there was no real discussion of the books on the Jack Ryan page, but mainly because I can't see that the page title "Ryanverse" is a suitable name for the topic, as it does not appear to be established. The two references used to establish its validity were a wikipedia mirror and a user list from amazon. Rob Sinden (talk) 14:21, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * No problem here. I didn't see problem with the "Ryanverse" article, as I've heard the term for years at literary conventions, but it looks like you did a very good job merging the information.  More power to you. Rapier1 (talk) 20:59, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Against All Enemies does not belong in the chronology list
There is no of Ryan or his son or his administration. The only link to the Ryanverse is a brief appearance of one of the Campus operatives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.84.212.16 (talk) 22:19, 16 January 2023 (UTC)