Talk:S&Man/GA2

GA Review
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Reviewer: Crisco 1492 (talk · contribs) 07:10, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll take this one. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:10, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

1a

 * General
 * Flow needs a bit of work, we're jumping from idea to idea here.
 * If you provide more context, the flow should come naturally. Missing information seems to be what's killing the prose here.


 * Lede
 * "It contains interviews with indie horror filmmakers and a scripted plot that comes into focus in the film's second half." ... "He interviewed experts in the horror and voyeur film industry. The experts include Carol J. Clover, a sexologist, and a forensic psychologist. Three faux snuff film directors, Eric Marcisak, Bill ZeBub, and Fred Vogel, are featured prominently. The film also features a fictional subplot that tries to make viewers question if Marcisaks' films are truly snuff." - If we're giving a summary, it should be in one place.


 * Plot
 * Plots don't have to be referenced, so you could just watch the film and write the plot yourself. That would ensure a better flow.
 * Also, would "Summary" work better?


 * Production
 * "his neighborhood " - Whose?
 * "the three other directors that would later become subjects of his documentary" - Who?
 * "J. T. Petty argued that most mainstream horror films "are rooted in the same voyeuristic leanings which sell such freakish fetish videos"" - Relevance?


 * Home video
 * This should probably be split into several sentences.


 * Film festivals
 * "The film's release at the Toronto International Film Festival caused controversy including online" - Unclear. Controversy including online?


 * Reception
 * [insert name here] said... - A bit repetitive. More variety, perhaps?

1b

 * We should not start #Production with quote. Quote box is probably better.
 * The section "Film references" is too short to warrant its own section. I'd suggest either developing it further or merging it with #Production

2a

 * Compare current FN2 and FN13. Is Dread Central the publisher (and therefore normal text) or the work (and therefore italicised)? Might want to double check the other sources.
 * Just a comment, you should standardise whether or not you link the publisher/work.
 * What makes Dread Central a reliable source?

3a

 * It never saw a theatrical release? Has that been mentioned anywhere? When were the film festivals held? When were the DVD and Blu-Ray released?
 * A bit more about the works of the subjects
 * Film references section should really be expanded.
 * "Eric Rost's S&MAN video series" - A bit of context, for us who don't know anything about the series?
 * The Complete S&Man – Episode 11 - Perhaps an explanation on what it is
 * "Midnight Madness" - Which is?
 * South by Southwest - which is held where?
 * What kind of controversy occurred in Toronto?
 * Apparently Time did a review here (I like the quote from another director: "JT, you sick fuck!"... shame its not in a more reliable source).

Spotchecks

 * Based on this revision of the article.


 * FN1
 * FN1a: Verified, no close paraphrasing
 * FN1b: Verified, no close paraphrasing
 * FN1c: Verified, no close paraphrasing


 * FN7
 * FN7a: Verified, quoted
 * FN7b: Verified, quoted
 * FN7c: Verified, no close paraphrasing
 * FN7d: Verified, acceptable paraphrasing


 * FN13: Verified, no close paraphrasing


 * FN18: Verified, no close paraphrasing


 * Spotchecks are fine.

Further discussion
I made a lot of changes. Can you take a look at them? SL93 (talk) 15:04, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Article on hold for completeness, references, and language Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:30, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note that I just left some comments on the peer review, mainly focused on prose. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:03, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * K, looking a little more complete. Before we worry about grammar, let's make sure the content will be fairly stable (i.e. we aren't expecting any more major additions):
 * Summary: I've never watched the film, so I'm not sure, but I'd expect a bit more plot summary to be included. How the interviews are weaved in with the story etc. Don't be minimalist; if we haven't seen the film, it's easier to cut extraneous information than add pertinent stuff. See Sang Pencerah or ? for some of my GAs which may help.
 * Remember to keep the flow logical. Why tell us the contents of the home releases first then the release date? Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:29, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Also the lede will need a bit of expansion. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:31, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I expanded the lead a bit and added two paragraphs to the summary about how the interviews featured in the film. I watched most of the film, but couldn't get through it. SL93 (talk) 15:56, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * This is getting much better, but for a GA we expect to have the climax of the film as well. If it's too disgusting to watch, perhaps find something about it online. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I added the main points of the ending from this source - http://www.offscreen.com/index.php/phile/essays/documenting_horror/. "Totaro received his PhD in Film & Television from the University of Warwick (UK) and is a part-time lecturer in Film Studies at Concordia University (Montreal, Canada). He has published on recent Asian cinema, the cinema of Andrei Tarkovsky, the horror genre and is currently preparing a manuscript entitled Time and the Long Take in Narrative Cinema." SL93 (talk) 23:35, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll give it a good copyedit after breakfast / after work, depending on how much time I have Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:25, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright. Thanks. SL93 (talk) 00:26, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I was just wondering when you are going to copy edit the article. I'm fine with whenever you decide, I just want to be ready for any corrections I might still need to make. SL93 (talk) 16:43, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added a cn tag. Also, since Petty is a player in the film as well I think he should be in the cast section. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:35, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I referenced that to DVD Verdict and I will add Petty to the cast. SL93 (talk) 01:41, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I have to go to work now. I'll finish my copyedit when I get back (not anytime soon though) Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:46, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've finished and am pretty fine on prose (I'd suggest having Mark take another look at it, though). Just wondering why the Time review was not included... that's a fairly major magazine. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I missed that. Sorry. SL93 (talk) 23:23, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I took care of the Time review. SL93 (talk) 23:31, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, I took another look at it, I think it's just about ready for promotion. A couple things I saw that I couldn't resolve via copyediting:
 * "Petty suspects that Eric actually kills women for his snuff films, a suspicion further exasperated when Rost says that he will relay Petty's contact information to the women instead of giving their contact information to Petty." I assume you meant "exacerbated" rather than "exasperated"?
 * "In the beginning of the film, clips show the directors and Clover commenting on a horror film that is not shown onscreen or mentioned." This sentence seems to contradict itself, if it's commented on then isn't it mentioned? Mark Arsten (talk) 23:52, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I meant that the title isn't mentioned. I will fix that. Crisco added exasperated, but I think that exacerbated is what he meant. SL93 (talk) 23:55, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I changed those two things. I hope that Crisco is fine with me changing the word. SL93 (talk) 23:59, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with that... wow, this article has changed. I'll take a final look through after work. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:26, 25 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Alright, that looks acceptable to me. Passing Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:58, 25 April 2012 (UTC)