Talk:SA3 coupler

Factual Inaccuracies
Well, actually the 1524mm gauge was chosen because it is exactly 5' 0" between the rails. And the SA3 coupler is a development of the Willison type, with the same general idea of a fixed head with internal locks to stop two couplers from coming apart, although (from photographs I have seen) the Willison generally has a much simpler internal mechanism that operates around a vertical axis, whereas the SA2 and later SA3 type couplers have a more complicated locking system that operates around a horizontal axis.

SA-3 is NOT a Janney Coupler
SA-3 coupler is an essentially differs from Janney coupler. These are absolutely different development. Janney coupler: The traction effort is transferred from one coupler to another coupler through rotary details. SA-3 coupler: The traction effort is transferred directly from the body of one coupler to the body of another coupler.

P.S. Sorry for my bad English Dmitry Sutyagin --195.112.127.162 16:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Put this another way:
 * Janney coupler: The tractive effort is transferred from one coupler to another coupler through moving parts.
 * SA-3 coupler: The tractive effort is transferred directly from the body of one coupler to the body of another coupler through fixed (non-moving) parts. This sounds more robust and stronger.
 * Tabletop (talk) 08:12, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Only 6000 ton?
The couplings must hold at least 9000 ton: With a weight up to 8600 ton, and a maximum gradient of 10 permille, the iron ore trains of Malmbanan don't snap. Ssteinberger (talk) 20:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Who wrote this nonsense about 6000 ton? Is this some US POV in an attempt to show off? There is a dully recorded run with 43,407 tonnes which requires a lot of prejudice to ignore.37.228.207.64 (talk) 22:26, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Heaviest trains
Since Soviet railways seem to be happy to run trains of "only" 6,000 tonnes and say 800m in length, the absolute maximum capability of the SA3 coupling has never been determined. However, the heaviest trains of 30,000T and longest trains of 2,500m use the AAR couplings. Tabletop (talk) 02:51, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * In a test run conducted in September 2011 single GT1-001 freight GTEL pulled 170 freight cars weighing 16,000 metric tons. I guess, capabilities of SA-3 are out of question now. Source: http://eng.rzd.ru/newse/public/rzdeng?STRUCTURE_ID=15&refererLayerId=5074&layer_id=4839&id=105768 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.79.152.182 (talk) 07:47, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Iraq and Africa
According to coupling (railway) by country, Iraq uses SA3 couplers. However since the preferred coupling for the UAR in Africa and perhaps the middle east as well is the AAR, perhaps Iraq will eventually convert to this as well for the sake of standardisation. Tabletop (talk) 02:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Iraq is not likely to change because Turkey uses SA3 couplers as well. See Turkey. Peter Horn User talk 21:48, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Translation needed
Can someone translate the caption in English? Peter Horn User talk 21:39, 20 March 2010 (UTC)


 * According to Google Translate, it means 'SA-3 in railway transport museum' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.74.208.18 (talk) 12:53, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Janney couplers on Iron Ore Line
This article contradicts Ofoten Line, Iore, and Iron Ore Line.

All three articles claim that SA3 couplers are no longer used, and Janney/AAR are used instead since about 2004. Teaktl17 (talk) 06:36, 12 December 2011 (UTC) But probably all three articles are wrong; they all refer to the same document, and the document doesn't support AAR use. Also, these 3 articles state the K. Industrier wagons are used, but Kockums Industrier clearly state that SA-3 coupler is used on Iron Ore Line: http://www.kockumsindustrier.se/en-us/our-products/productdetail/?categoryid=5&productid=9 (wagon name is Fammoorr050) Teaktl17 (talk) 08:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The where plans to change over to Janney/AAR-couplers with acquisition of IORE locomotives and gondola wagons from Transwerk of South Africa. However, the wagons didn't fare well in the winter climate. Further orders of the South African wagons where thus cancelled. When the purportedly well-tested and comparably cheap off-the-shelf purchase fell trough, there where no further benefits of using AAR-couplers and the the change-over was aborted. There is some debate on wither AAR are as good as SA3 in Swedish railfan forums, but some say AAR have a higher failure rate in cold weather. The current wagons from K industries are equipped with Willison/SA3 from ASF. The first batch of IORE locmotives that where equiped with AAR have had their couplers changes to SA3. Steinberger (talk) 21:40, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Who was John Willison
Could the author try to add an article about inventor John Willison from Derby, England, just as there is an article about Eli Janney? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.74.208.18 (talk) 12:55, 5 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Trying to find something useful about John Willison, I got in touch with Dave Harris at the Midland Railway Study Centre, midlandrailwaystudycentre.org.uk, and I was lucky: He was interested in the matter himself, did some real research and came up with this reply (relevant excerpts):


 * 'John Willison was born in 1852 in Edinburgh. In 1871 he gave his occupation as Park Keeper. By 1880 he was married to Jane and they embarked on the White Star liner Celtic to start a new life in Cleveland Ohio, with the first of their five children arriving the same year.


 * His first patent was issued on 13FEB1900 for a “new and useful improvement in car-couplers” (US Patent and Trademark Office Patent No. 643581).


 * By the time of the 1901 UK Census, 31st March, the Willison family had settled at No.1 Olney Villas, (later known as No.31), Clarence Road, Derby, which was to be their home for at least ten years. John, meanwhile, travelled back to the United States, embarking at Southampton for New York in September of that year. He was to spend the next 15 years shuttling back & forth between Ohio and Derby.


 * He gave his Derby address to the U.S. Patent Office for further registrations; “Patent for Uncoupling Railway Cars” (Patent No. 696386 dated March 25, 1902), “Patent for improvements in Automatic Couplings”(Patent No. 728184 dated May 12, 1903) and “Patent for draft rigging for couplers” (Patent No. 767724 August 16, 1904).


 * His crossing back to New York in February 1905 was on the White Star liner Baltic, under the command of the ill-fated Captain Edward Smith. That year, a further patent for “Supporting Pivot-pins in couplers” was issued to him (No. 804289 Specification of Letters Patent application Nov 14, 1905). In 1910, in the employ of the National Malleable Castings Company of Cleveland, Ohio, he patented the “Willison Coupler” (patent numbers: 1194109A, 1194110A).


 * On the 1911 Census, still at the Clarence Road address, John very helpfully wrote his occupation as “Engineer, appliances for railway carriages and waggons, automatic couplings, draft gear etc.” adding under employer “Malleable Iron and Steel Castings”.


 * John’s first wife, Jane, died in 1915 but he was remarried to Elsie Louisa Grindley, with a child on the way, within a year. He was in Ohio when his son Donald was born in Derby. John and his second family emigrated to Ohio in 1919, returning to Derbyshire for brief stay in 1929.


 * His final patent was for “A transitional mechanism for couplers” and was registered in Cleveland (patent no 1601514). John Willison died in Cleveland, Ohio on 12th May 1932.'


 * Then he adds this personal note:


 * 'The mystery of the piece is why he came to Derby and his family remained here for so long. It is tempting to imagine there was some link with the famous Derby company of Leys Malleable Castings whose premised were located only a mile or so from Clarence Road. Indeed, I understand from a friend who used to work there that in the latter part of the 20th Century there were at least two senior employees with the name of Willison. Given that this is not a common surname in the area, I think it very likely they were descended from John Willison. Or it could just be coincidence.'


 * My sugestion would be that the article's author consider writing an article about John Willison, based on this material, as I myself am not a WP author? Also, in case he feel the need for additional clarification, it would probably be best to turn directly to Dave Harris, who appeared to be interested in the matter. His email address can be found on the website. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.63.47.32 (talk) 22:08, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * The patents cited above have nothing to do with the SA3 coupler, see wrong patents below. Peter Horn User talk 15:16, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Wrong patents
Patent US1194109 A and Patent US1194110 A show Janney coupler compatibles. Just click on the links and look at the patent illustrations. Peter Horn User talk 14:28, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Patent 643581 A also shows a variant of the knuckle coupler. Peter Horn User talk 14:46, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Patent 1601514 A is a firearms patent by someone else. So let us find the REAL patents by, perhaps, the real Mr. Willison? Peter Horn User talk 15:04, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * These patents came from Talk:SA3 coupler above. Peter Horn User talk 16:42, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * No comments yet? Peter Horn User talk 01:07, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Peter Horn, are you saying there is a problem with the google patents record? or is there a problem with the USPTO records?  or something else? Frietjes (talk) 20:27, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Simply the wrong patents were selected, there must be others. Patent 1601514 A is a firearms patent by someone other than Mr. Willison and therefore irrelevant. Other than that click on the patent lnks and then look at the patent illustrations. WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS A KNUCKLE COUPLER CONTOUR, NOT A WILLISON CONTOUR. Peter Horn User talk 21:59, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Eureka! This is it US1201667. I'll look for others, if there are any. Peter Horn User talk 23:28, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Then there is this nifty adapter arrangement US4102459. Patent US1194109 A, Patent US1194110 A and Patent 643581 A show special Janney couplers that allow the adoption arrangement to work. Peter Horn User talk 23:45, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Correction, the adaptor dates from 1978 and was not invented by Willison. The three Janney couplers are merely improvements. Peter Horn User talk 00:00, 23 August 2017 (UTC)