Talk:SEPTA City Transit Division surface routes

What are these???
/History /Family tree /History by downtown streets /History by company /1911 list /History of changes from 1911


 * I want to know too. Train2104 (talk) 13:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Deletion of subway-surface and route 15 references
The subway-surface and route 15 references were deleted because in the main paragraph of the article, it makes reference to buses and trackless trolleys, NOT streetcar routes. Route 15 and the subway-surface lines have their own dedicated pages and links from the main SEPTA article. I stand behind my deletion of the 10, 11, 13, 15, 34 and 36 from this article. Making reference in this article is almost redundant.Ctrabs74 12:02, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. No need for a redundant reference here.  —CComMack (t–c) 14:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

There are links in the first column to the details on the trolley lines. --NE2 18:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Ctrabs. There is a separate article for the Trolley-Lines, and there is no reason to mix bus routes with trolley routes.  Perhaps note at the beginning can note that City Division Transit Routes like the BSL, MFL, SSL, and 15 have theire own pages.-- danntm T C 20:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * These are all very similar surface routes, some of which happen to use steel wheels rather than rubber tires. They are all numbered in the same system, and to not include them is confusing for non-Philadelphians. --NE2 21:27, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The way its set up right now, it's hard to differentiate the different modes. On the part of SEPTA's web site where the routes are listed, the streetcar routes are listed separately from the bus routes.  I have, however, begrudgingly decided to make the updates in your format until a concensous is reached on this issue. Ctrabs74 23:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, SEPTA's site doesn't group the routes by city and suburban divisions as we do; they have one page for 1-89 and another for 90-314 and lettered. The modes are differentiated by the notes; do you think it would be useful to add a light background color (probably green, since that's what the SEPTA map uses) for the trolleys? --NE2 00:08, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * For starters, that would help.

Secondly, if we are going to decide to keep the trolley routes listed, the paragraph, and for that matter, the title of this article should probably be changed to reflect that. Ctrabs74 12:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Streetcar color
I replaced light green with light blue for the 15 line because this is how SEPTA shows the (currently) only surface streetcar line on their 2006 City Transit map -- Cecropia 21:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Route 312
I removed route 312, it is not mentioned on SEPTA's schedule page, nor the Chestnut Hill East page, nor does a search for 312 return anything.

If it exists under another name, feel free to replace it. Train2104 (talk) 13:37, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Merge from SEPTA Route C
It seems that the content at the SEPTA Route C would belong here, but it's hard to tell. The lettered routes table doesn't include a route C and the SEPTA Route C is not clear enough. Can someone that knows this traffic system put the information together in context? Diego (talk) 18:52, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I removed the C from the lettered table because the route designation has ceased to exist as of today, 2012-02-19. It has been split into the 4 and 16. &mdash; Train2104 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Would it be possible to add it to a section on former routes? DanTD (talk) 21:20, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge, agreeing with the suggestion of a section on 'former routes'. Klbrain (talk) 12:42, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Split into SEPTA Routes 4 and 16
SEPTA Route C has been split into SEPTA Route 4 and SEPTA Route 16. Articles are needed for those two routes, and this article should explain the situation. --DThomsen8 (talk) 13:09, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Out of date
Whenever someone gets around to editing this article. SEPTA has discontinued the 71 and split the 23 into two routes. The new route is called the 45 and replaces the 23 south of Center City. Ken S. (talk) 03:33, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

"SEPTA Night" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect SEPTA Night and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 20 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TartarTorte 23:40, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Proposal to split current bus lists
I would like to propose that the current route sections of this article (Current routes, parts of Lettered routes, LUCY routes, and Boulevard Direct) and the Routes section of SEPTA Suburban Division bus routes be split into a new article named List of SEPTA bus routes. The remaining articles would be renamed SEPTA City Transit Division and SEPTA Suburban Transit Division.

With modern wayfinding changes to SEPTA, it makes no difference to everyday users whether they are on a city bus or suburban bus; therefore, having a listing of SEPTA bus routes on Wikipedia would be best achieved in its own article rather than straddling two separate ones. Both the City Transit Division and Suburban Division warrant their own articles, due to their separate histories and timelines (and are still operationally distinct today, such as with strikes in city or suburban divisions), but having the bus route listings themselves separate is fairly confusing. News coverage specifically on SEPTA bus routes rarely, if ever, make any distinction of being part of the city or suburban divisions (example) unless talking specifically about things affecting one but not the other (like the aforementioned strikes).

The new List of bus routes article would not have any information on those services which have been reorganized under SEPTA Metro (i.e. routes 10, 11, 13, 15, 34, and 36). They would still have a mention in the City Transit or Suburban Division articles, but would not be in the bus-specific article, since modern SEPTA wayfinding considers Metro, Regional Rail, and Bus (including trackless trolleys) to be the three distinct public-facing networks. Emma Lexi Triphora (talk) 14:29, 18 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I'd think if the list of routes is merged, the prose about the divisions should be merged into a SEPTA bus service article or back to SEPTA. There is not enough content about the operational divisions without the route lists to justify the two articles as standalone, nor do I think they are even notable as just operational divisions. Reywas92Talk 16:41, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I think merging both into SEPTA is reasonable. Emma Lexi Triphora (talk) 17:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd support the split/reorganization then. SEPTA Metro can also be merged back to SEPTA, the table and most of the prose are duplicative. Reywas92Talk 21:35, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * i'll begin working on it Neoplan7101 (talk) 20:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Neoplan7101 Wonderful! I was planning on starting the draft myself, but I have been busy as of late and I appreciate your initiative. I moved your incomplete article out of mainspace to draftspace since it isn't complete yet. I think that "List of SEPTA bus routes" makes more sense as a title than "SEPTA bus service" -- the article's main purpose is the list, not describing the bus service (this can be accomplished in the main SEPTA article). If you'd like, you can use my recent creation List of DART First State bus routes as a reference. I did create a barebones couple leading sentences in User:Triphora/List_of_SEPTA_bus_routes if you also want to copy that. Emma Lexi Triphora (talk) 02:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed that naming the article "List of SEPTA bus routes" would make sense. So would making the City and Suburban divisions subsections of the main SEPTA article. By the way, shouldn't the Frontier division (bus routes in Bucks County) also be included as a separate subsection in SEPTA? Marketstel (talk) 13:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I also want to second that List of SEPTA bus routes would be a good solution. The difference between "City Transit" and "Suburban Transit" is quite trivial and really only applies to the agency's internal operations.  Perhaps the list could be split into sections, or a column denoting a particular line's division could be helpful, but I do not see a need for seperate pages.  Take note of the formats in List of San Francisco Municipal Railway lines or List of Oslo Metro lines, both of which are Featured lists. – Dream out loud  (talk) 17:26, 5 June 2024 (UTC)