Talk:SIP Animation

Subsequent ownership
User:LTPHarry, it is quite clear from the A.T.O.M. licensing situation that ownership of SIP's post-Saban shows did not automatically pass to Disney, with the exception of W.I.T.C.H. So it cannot be assumed that Combo Niños is now owned by Disney either, not in the absence of a source for that claim. Modernponderer (talk) 20:56, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Modernponderer For A.T.O.M., does it say if Multicom distribute the show worldwide, as they appear to only distribute shows in North America. Combo Niños never aired in the United States so it’s quite possible Disney might own the series. They do own the 3 Jetix Animation Concepts shows though (SRMTHG, Get Ed and Yin Yang Yo!) But they were produced by Walt Disney Television Animation under the Jetix name, so I guess they don’t count and the fact they have a Disney Enterprises copyright in the credits. Luigitehplumber (talk) 21:12, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * @User:LTPHarry: Whether MEG distributes it internationally or not, the point is that an independent company got the rights to one of SIP's shows. I'm also not sure what airing or not airing in the US has to do with ownership. Jetix US management may simply not have wanted to air the series, just like they apparently didn't with season 2 of A.T.O.M. (which MEG nevertheless states it has the rights to). The JAC shows are also irrelevant here because SIP's shows were completely separate in terms of rights.
 * The note I added for W.I.T.C.H. should help explain the situation. As far as I can tell, all DVD releases of the show are marked as Disney DVDs – even if they are actually produced by local distributors in a particular country. On the other hand, as far as I am aware, no A.T.O.M. DVD releases have any Disney logos at all. Modernponderer (talk) 21:55, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * What you said about no Disney logos on A.T.O.M. DVDs is correct, as in all regions that DVDs were released in they were done by other distributors (The only mention of Disney I could find on some of them was a copyright disclaimer for Jetix, as Disney owns the Jetix trademark. Luigitehplumber (talk) 22:06, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * But again, many of the W.I.T.C.H. DVDs were released by other distributors as well, yet the actual discs have the standard Disney DVD trailers. Modernponderer (talk) 22:14, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Do you have any proof of non-Disney companies distributing W.I.T.C.H. DVDs? If there are, likely Disney licensed the show to the distributor and so the Disney DVD logos remain. Luigitehplumber (talk) 22:22, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * See the article on the show – season 2 is actually only distributed by non-Disney companies (which also distribute season 1 in those countries). Obviously you're right about Disney licensing it to them. I'm saying that it's another indication of a difference in ownership between W.I.T.C.H. and SIP's other shows. Modernponderer (talk) 22:30, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I checked. Only the Czech version is under a different distributor, which as I said, licenses Disney content from them. The polish one says "Disney DVD and Blu-Ray" while the Russian version has the Buena Vista Home Entertainment logo on it's spine. Luigitehplumber (talk) 22:55, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That blurb from the Polish store is just a general category. You can confirm the actual distributor Bauer Media Group from the back cover of any of the individual DVD cases (there are scans on various sites) or here:
 * I cannot confirm the distributor for the Russian version right now, but that logo may be misleading because it could refer to any Buena Vista division. Modernponderer (talk) 23:21, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * @User:LTPHarry: After a ridiculous amount of searching, I finally found high-res scans of the Russian back covers (not posting the links here though). BVHE actually is credited (that is indeed its logo on the spine), but only as the copyright holder.
 * The actual distributors – technically the first of these is mentioned as the licensee, and the second as the actual disc manufacturer – are "ООО «БиЮАр-ВС», ООО «Ди Ви Ди КЛУБ»." If you search for this text on the Russian Wikipedia, you'll find they've worked together to release other Disney DVDs as well. Modernponderer (talk) 05:47, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry for making you find them all. Anyways i'll be getting the sources of the bits you wanted me to find right now. Luigitehplumber (talk) 11:14, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * No big deal re: searching – it's good to have that information written down somewhere anyhow. And I only had to search for the Russian one really. (It's just surprising it was so hard to find.) Modernponderer (talk) 12:09, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * On the good side, I found a source for the C&E thing, and the other one you wanted me to find was from the Saban Entertainment page. Also is Fox Kids Worldwide/Fox Children's Productions (before they bought International Family Entertainment and merged into Fox Family Worldwide) a proper company or a dummy company? (I'm asking as my Oliver Twist DVD has the Fox Kids Worldwide logo at the end of the episodes on it) Luigitehplumber (talk) 13:00, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm not really familiar with Fox's history that far back. (Though I don't think it's important for Wikipedia anyhow.) Modernponderer (talk) 13:12, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I decided not to include them, as i'm only going over opening and closing credits for company sources and only Saban Entertainment and Saban International Paris were credited fpr that show. Maybe check through all of them to see if they're all okay. I didn't include broadcast networks as I know already they aren't production companies unless they have a production company subsidiary with the broadcasters name in it. (Like Scottish Television Enterprises, who co-produced Jim Button). Luigitehplumber (talk) 13:37, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Disney's ownership stake
User:LTPHarry, where did you get the info that it was 49%? All the sources I managed to find only state that Disney owned part of it, not 49% specifically.

If you know of a source for that number, please add it to the article. Modernponderer (talk) 19:02, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I’d found that information on a website ages ago (I’ve forgotten which one it was though). I wouldn’t make up information though. Luigitehplumber (talk) 19:17, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
 * @User:LTPHarry, OK. In case you find it again, please do add it back with a citation though. Modernponderer (talk) 19:44, 20 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello Mr. Harry. It seems that all the information about SIP mentioned in this topic is wrong. In 2013, BVS Entertainment takes control of all remaining shares of the SIP before the SIP is liquidated in 2023.Moreover, SIP was never independent according to the French documents we have. Since 1991, companies called IFP and Pueblo have been joint shareholders along with BVS Entertainment (formerly Saban Entertainment) until 2012.
 * So there is no reason for this title to be separate from the Saban Entertainment main title. Because BVS has been a shareholder from the very beginning, and in 2013, the control of the all shares was completely transferred to BVS Entertainment. When the company is liquidated in 2023, all company assets are transferred to Delaware US-based company BVS Entertainment. If you want, I will share the documents with you. I think this needs to be fixed. This company was a subsidiary of BVS for 10 years before it officially ceased operations in 2023.Thanks. 31.142.21.70 (talk) 12:24, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with this. Julian.exe (talk) 15:55, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, this was from back in 2018 so not everything was known at the time. Thank you for helping with the page regardless. I had to fix a lot of red links and duplicate links though.Luigitehplumber (talk) 04:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Inukshuk
@User:Modernponderer, do you think that Inukshuk deserves a page of it's own or not? Luigitehplumber (talk) 19:50, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * User:LTPHarry, seeing how short List of independent short films is, I don't think it qualifies – the standard of notability for short films must be very high.
 * Are there even any reviews of it? All I could find was general information, mostly from sources that are not WP:INDEPENDENT of its production or distribution.
 * You may also want to consult WP:NFILMS in general, though it doesn't mention "short" films specifically so it may not fully apply. Modernponderer (talk) 21:05, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Do you know who distributed the film? I’m pretty sure that Interfilm did it (I do find it strange though that Disney had no involvement whatsoever on the film even though they already owned a minority stake in SIP). Luigitehplumber (talk) 21:25, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * User:LTPHarry, Interfilm probably has it in its catalogue because it runs a suitable film festival, something which I'm pretty sure Disney doesn't have. Also, I couldn't find sources supporting this explicitly, but it doesn't seem that SIP had significant ties to Disney after Combo Niños (which already had very limited distribution).


 * I think SIP distributed it too, though. You may also want to read the source that I added to the article not long ago about SIP's call for short films in 2006. Modernponderer (talk) 23:01, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The credits however do list various staff members who worked at SIP. I’m guessing that dispite the fact Disney minority owned SIP, they would have rather done their own things like a proper independent company (which it was to begin with after 2001) or something like that. Luigitehplumber (talk) 23:27, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * User:LTPHarry, given that SIP was involved, why wouldn't its main staff be listed? I don't see the connection here. Modernponderer (talk) 23:37, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry for confusing you there. I'd translated the credits myself (they're in French) and it still doesn't list who distributed the film, so i'll go with what you say. I once tried to upload it to my YouTube but a German company who possibly had some sort of rights to the film copyright striked my channel. Luigitehplumber (talk) 23:45, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * User:LTPHarry, you're right that the distributor should be mentioned, since there's a source for that. I've added it to the article. (There shouldn't be any entirely unsourced information in the article, though.) Modernponderer (talk) 00:24, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Japanese tour of French and Spanish animation studios
I found the source to what I said about Disney owning a 49% stake in SIP, which was through this Japanese tour.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100620144421/http://dcaj.org/report/anime/anime1.pdf

The people were confirmed by someone (I think it was Bruno Bianchi) that Disney owned that stake and the fact that Saban International Paris had to change their name as they could no longer use it. I think this tour was from ether 2003 or 2004. Luigitehplumber (talk) 10:21, 24 December 2018 (UTC)


 * User:LTPHarry, that is an incredible source! It even has photos of SIP's studios, which are something I've been looking for for a long time. By the way, there may be more information in there that is useful for Wikipedia, not only for this article but for related ones as well – though I had a hard time understanding some of the translated text.


 * Do you know of any other behind-the-scenes sources like this for SIP, or any of its shows for that matter? Modernponderer (talk) 17:34, 24 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I don’t unfortunely, but I’ll continue researching anyways. The article was already sourced on the page on the Japanese Wikipedia. Luigitehplumber (talk) 18:06, 24 December 2018 (UTC)


 * @User:LTPHarry: Ah, OK. By the way, the first page says the whole report is from December 2003, so it can't be from 2004. (And it can't really be from before 2003 either, because the part about SIP says the "acquisition" happened two years ago.)


 * Also, the reference to a certain time interval at the beginning of the SIP part makes me think the report's photos come from a video... it would be really great to find that too, if it exists. Modernponderer (talk) 19:37, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I propose merging SIP Animation with Saban Entertainment, because BVS Entertainment Inc., the legal successor of Saban Entertainment, is the owner of SIP Animation, who also liquidated it in October 2023.

Source: https://www.pappers.fr/entreprise/sip-animation-312161516 Julian.exe (talk) 15:00, 29 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I think that's a terrible idea, because SIP is a standalone company to Saban/BVS and adding the information into the Saban page would clog it up. Luigitehplumber (talk) 03:49, 1 February 2024 (UTC)