Talk:SJK 171

Untitled
I found many references, there are hundreds on google. I will get more day by day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.166.199.5 (talk) 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Why is the page subject to deletion. I have zero affiliation. I am adding info as I stumble upon it. these are all facts outlined in published books and articles! What am I doing wrong. I am a graffiti fan and people need to know the history. Other historical names are given credit in the wiki page also. He was not the founder but he was one of them. Please explain why a page with facts is subject to deletion>? Documentaries, books, websites all are stating the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnnyrare (talk • contribs) 17:45, 1 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Looking at the most recent batch of edits you made, the citation to the Chicago show doesn't appear to support the claim being made - is there some reference to Chicago in there that I'm missing? Also, for the intro, Wall Writers is used as a source in the text, but being in that documentary doesn't really belong in the intro. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 13:03, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

United Graffiti Artists
I'm unable to verify his role in its foundation, so I removed it. https://books.google.com/books?id=hYROgc2s2DgC&pg=PA187 Graywalls (talk) 21:18, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Renaissance Society
A statement that SJK 171 contributed was made and was cited with the reference http://www.renaissancesociety.org/exhibitions/332/rapid-enamel-the-art-of-graffiti/ I removed it, because the reference does not even mention SJK 171. Graywalls (talk) 21:24, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

UGA claim verification
Please see this article from LA Weekly which refers to him as a founding member of United Graffiti Artists, specifically this sentence: "'Practitioners were mainly people of color, but some were white, like Steve Kesoglides (SJK171) and Mike Hughes (MIKE171), both from Washington Heights, who used to run with Henry Medina (Henry161) when they were founding members of United Graffiti Artists, one of the genre's first crews.'"

, does this justify mentioning in the body that SJK 171 was a founding member of UGA or that according to LA Weekly, he was a founding member of UGA? Rstats8108 (talk) 22:19, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Also tagging Rstats8108 (talk) 21:12, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Certainly looks sufficient to me. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 22:18, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposed edits to intro section
I went through the history of this page and recognize it contained improperly sourced statements in the past that reviewers thought overstated SJK 171's notability. I am concerned that the current intro has pivoted in the opposite direction. I would like to propose editing the intro in light of the following source material:


 * A 1973 New York Times article on the first United Graffiti Artists exhibition mentions SJK 171 by name along with 11 other graffiti artists, calling them "graffiti all-stars": https://www.nytimes.com/1973/09/16/archives/graffiti-goes-legitbut-the-showoff-ebullience-remains.html


 * A 2018 LA Weekly article mentions SJK 171 as one of three founding members of United Graffiti Artists which it describes as being one of the first graffiti crews: https://www.laweekly.com/beyond-the-streets-harkens-to-graffitis-roots-in-diversity


 * A 2018 LA Downtown News article refers to SJK 171 as a "graffiti pioneer": http://www.ladowntownnews.com/arts_and_entertainment/celebrating-street-art-in-a-chinatown-warehouse/article_43b3597a-5ded-11e8-930e-c3bd9c40acd7.html


 * A 2019 Surface magazine article refers to SJK 171 as a "legend": https://www.surfacemag.com/articles/beyond-the-streets-exhibition-brooklyn-best-graffiti-artists

This is ample evidence that SJK 171 was not just "a New York City graffiti artist who was active during the late 1960s and 1970s." I propose amending the intro to recognize him being a founding member (or at least an early member) of United Graffiti Artists and also for being recognized by some sources as a graffiti pioneer. Specifically, to the best of my knowledge, the contemporaneous New York Times article from 1973 had not previously been referenced in this discussion in the past and its discovery should be weighted considerably.

Here is a proposed rewrite:

SJK 171 (aka Steve the Greek), born Steve Kesoglides, is a New York City graffiti artist who was active during the late 1960s and 1970s. A native of Washington Heights, he was a founding member of United Graffiti Artists, one of the first professional graffiti collectives that focused on bringing graffiti from the streets to the studios. Some sources have recognized him as a graffiti pioneer and also for originating the "squiggly lines" style of outlining graffiti.

CC'ing &. I would welcome discussion. Rstats8108 (talk) 06:02, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Basically looks good to me. Only comment I'd have would be the "from the streets to the studios" phrase sounds like a tagline, with a promotional tone.  Might be better as "A native of Washington Heights, he was a founding member of United Graffiti Artists, one of the first professional graffiti collectives." BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 15:27, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Done - thanks!! Rstats8108 (talk) 09:23, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I have left it as is, except I moved the last sentence away from lead, because I don't believe that opinions of some sources that do not reflect the general consensus should be lead worthy. I don't think SJK 171 is generally seen as a graffiti pioneer. Graywalls (talk) 21:11, 19 August 2020 (UTC)