Talk:SORCER/Archive 5

paragraph one

 * 1)  SORCER (Service ORiented Computing EnviRonment), sometimes written as SOCER,
 * 2)  is a cloud-based computing platform
 * 3)  that integrates applications such as engineering systems in large complex IT environments.
 * 4)  It is a follow up to the FIPER project
 * 5)  which was funded by the National Institute of Standards and Technology Advanced Technology Program.
 * 6)  The SORCER program was led by Michael Sobolewski at Texas Tech University[1] through 2009.
 * 7)  In 2010, the project spun off into an independent organization with a goal of providing an open source platform.[2]

Rewrite attempt. See WP:Footnotes for the 'efn' squiggly-syntax.


 * 1)  SORCER
 * 2)  is a cloud-based grid computing platform (typically using Java to write network-shell-scripts called exertions which implement location-agnostic web services).
 * 3)  SORCER's grid-computing capability is primarily used to speed up computerized analysis of aerospace simulations and traffic noise, as of 2013.
 * 4)  SORCER's predecessor was called FIPER, which was software for a GE aircraft-engine-design project
 * 5)  funded from 1999-2003 by NIST's ATP.
 * 6)  SORCER Labs was founded in November 2002 at  TTU;
 * 7)  in 2010, SORCER Labs became a spin-off organization, funded primarily by the USAF's AFRL, and the source code was partially  opened.
 * 8)  SORCER (and FIPER) were invented primarily by Professor Mike Sobolewski; his work from 1994-2002 at GE, then at TTU through 2009, and since then at AFRL, mirrors SORCER's history.
 * 9)  Other groups using SORCER include Beijing Jiaotong University in China, Cranfield University in the United Kingdom, and Ulyanovsk State University in Russia.

Notes

Anybody else like this version better? 74.192.84.101 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I find it easier to read, thus it is, by definition, better. It lacks the main requirement of an opening paragraph, though. It does not tell me why this is important. From a journalist's or marketeer's persepctive, and, amusingly, from an encyclopaedia's perspective this is a must have. "Tell me why I should read this material and why it is here." Something like "By deploying SORCER, recorded costs savings/ productivity increases [quantify and verify] have been made." That is at least highly desirable. (oops, failed to sign) Fiddle   Faddle  13:44, 31 December 2013 (UTC)


 * It sounds better and more like Wikipedia. But in my opinion we shoud not compare it to grid computing as:
 * SORCER works on higher layers
 * SORCER delivers logic for processing - grids doesn't (tools for grids does provide it but not grids itself);
 * SORCER delivers language to operate on integrated systems - and grids does not.

Pawelpacewicz (talk) 13:34, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, there *is* a new language from sorcerSoft the company-slash-organization-twins, but "SORCER" is not the language, it is the nsh and the FMI-stuff and the service-configuration-backend... whereas EOL is the language, which is built on Groovy, which is built on JVM-bytecode. But, one can always just use straight Java as the language, which proves that EOL and SORCER *are* distinct, right?  EOL is a language that can be used to program exertion-scripts for nsh to execute, and EOL has some special features not included in the base Groovy/Java languages.  Anyways, we'll get to a paragraph about languages-used-with-SORCER, further down in our list of paragraphs.
 * As for the definition of SORCER as a type of grid-computing-infrastructure, it is a quote straight from DaytonThesis, by Thompson. What is SORCER called in other reliable sources?  Sometimes it is referred to as a meta-operating-system, but that's not how it is often used currently.  It is a capability, which might be used in the classified literature, but not in the sources we have at present, right?  That is what we have to stick to.  What is SORCER called in the 2007 lit-review from U.Cranfield, for instance?
 * As for Tim's question, see fragment#3 ("primarily used to" is my codephrase meaning "primarily Notable for being used to") that same DaytonThesis also gives us a good quote about the purpose (or at least *one* purpose) for which SORCER is notable... using the extra speed that SORCER's spread-the-load-across-the-grid-related-features offer, aircraft-designers like Thompson can perform full-fledged non-linear analysis of aircraft-designs in simulations, rather than the traditional linear-analysis. When the DaytonThesis simulated the aircraft-wing-design at mach 0.50 there was no difference in the optimality of the design; linear was just as good as non-linear.  However, when the same pair of design-methodologies was applied to the same aircraft-wing-design at mach 0.89 ... which is getting close enough to the sound barrier that weird things come into play ... the SORCER-powered non-linear analysis-methodology created a *much* more-optimal automated wing-design, using the same amount of time & personnel & whatnot.  So at least from Thompson's DaytonThesis perspective, SORCER is purely a grid-computing-infrastructure-platform, which permits spreading the computations across a grid of machines, and thus gives better wing-designs without the need to fabricate physical models and test them in the wind-tunnel.  What do our other WP:RS say, is the chief advantage of using SORCER, as opposed to other software-options?  What is the big advantage of SORCER for Nan Li, and the traffic-noise-mapping work?  HTH. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 23:06, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

My proposal below: ((Be aware that WP:WikiFauna have modified the original comment! redundant information was snipped and strikethru insert syntax was added.)) Prubach (talk) 14:31, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * 1)  ok
 * 2)  is a cloud-based grid computing platform (typically using Java to write network-shell-scripts called exertions which implement location-agnostic web services).  is a distributed computing platform implemented in Java. SORCER uses the Jini infrastructure to create wrappers and expose functionalities (other applications, native or java libraries etc.) as services. SORCER introduces the front-end service-oriented programming model, where the user writes network-shell-scripts (similar to Bash scripts) that when executed by SORCER's network shell bind dynamically using Jini's discovery and join protocols to services anywhere in the Jini/SORCER network and execute the operations specified in the script on these services. This is different from Unix shell scripts that execute on one machine or on one Cluster_(computing).
 * 3)  SORCER's grid-computing capability is primarily used...  SORCER is often utilized in similar scenarios to those where grids are used (Grid computing) to run parallel tasks
 * 4)  ok
 * 5)  ok
 * 6)  ok
 * 7)  in 2010... the source code was partially  opened.  SORCER core's source code was made public in 2013 under the Apache open source license.
 * 8)  ok
 * 9)  ok


 * Concerning fragment#3 of paragraph#1, what is SORCER currently actually used for, besides speeding up CAE work? I understand the SORCER is *designed* to be more than just a grid-computing-platform, and we can *say* that it was designed to do more than just grid-computing, but my reading of the sources (which of course cannot hope to be as broad and deep as folks who are intimately familiar with SORCER so take this with a grain of salt) is that SORCER is *only* used for grid-computing.  DaytonThesis, which is from 2012, flat-out defines SORCER as a grid-computing solution.  Are there other WP:RS which define SORCER differently, and in particular, are there other WP:RS which show SORCER being actually used for 'distributed computing' which is interestingly different from 'grid computing' aka speeding up computations via custom-programmed coarse-grained parallelism?
 * On frag#2, there is no doubt your longer explanation is more correct. :-)     But this is the first sentence of the first paragraph of the article.  We have to distill down the essence of what SORCER is, to something a tenth-grade-HTML-wiz has a shot at understanding.  My first frag#2_B used 2-dozen words to get it wrong, and your frag#2_C uses 8-dozen words to get it right.  Can we boil it down into a dozen-or-two words, that still get it right?  Here's  3.5-dozen words, do you like it?  frag#2_D.  is a distributed computing platform (in  Java), providing  network-based  Jini-discoverable  services (often  wrappers around existing  applications).  Services are  programmatically controlled via network-shell scripts ("exertions"), which  dynamically bind at  runtime to  unloaded network-nodes (see distributed operating system) via Jini " joins".  74.192.84.101 (talk) 19:24, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I like version proposed by Prubach but I agree that 1st paragraph should be easy so short version proposed by 74 is good direction. I would propose to add at the end some simple and high level explanation for example: "It allows to write network-programs (exertions) that operates on wrapped applications spread in the network" Pawelpacewicz (talk) 11:26, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I understand the point - I too much wanted to keep with your initial idea of explaining what it does. I propose the following for frag#2: The rest of my current content of frag#2 I'd move to par.2.
 * 1) ...is a distributed computing platform implemented in Java. It allows to write network-programs (called exertions) that operates on wrapped applications (services) spread in the network.

Concerning your comment on fragment#3 of paragraph#1 it is true that SORCER is designed to do much more and that's what I'm currently also trying to look at - where and how this technology could be applied but it is also true that current use-cases are practically only in grid-computing (some students at TTU used it for running genetic research on mupltiple machines) and in CAE with the exception of this Chinese article on traffic noise. BTW I've never actually heard about it until you've found it ;) Prubach (talk) 14:17, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

So looks like we are agreed with final version of paragraph 1. 74 - could I then ask You to make proper updates to 1st paragraph and then we will move to 2nd paragraph? Pawelpacewicz (talk) 12:09, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

So I would like to make Edit_requests as suggested by 74 (on his talk). According to Wikipedia rules I would like to propose a specific change on the talk page, and get consensus for it. If we will get consensus then I'll do Edit Request. So below You have summary of all changes agreed above:


 * 1)  SORCER
 * 2)  is a distributed computing platform implemented in Java. It allows to write network-programs (called exertions) that operates on wrapped applications (services) spread in the network.
 * 3)  SORCER is often utilized in similar scenarios to those where grids are used (Grid computing) to run parallel tasks.
 * 4)  SORCER's predecessor was called FIPER, which was software for a GE aircraft-engine-design project
 * 5)  funded from 1999-2003 by NIST's ATP.
 * 6)  SORCER Labs was founded in November 2002 at  TTU;
 * 7)  SORCER core's source code was made public in 2013 under the Apache open source license.
 * 8)  SORCER (and FIPER) were invented primarily by Professor Mike Sobolewski; his work from 1994-2002 at GE, then at TTU through 2009, and since then at AFRL, mirrors SORCER's history.
 * 9)  Other groups using SORCER include Beijing Jiaotong University in China, Cranfield University in the United Kingdom, andUlyanovsk State University in Russia.

Please confirm if You agree to "WP:ERQ" this version

Pawelpacewicz (talk) 10:19, 27 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry folks, I've been swamped. I have made a few tweaks to the wording; I changed "using" into the more vague "which have made use of" ... we can give details of who used/uses SORCER, when, in the body.  I also added some grammar-tweaks and some wikilinks.  Here is the usual numbered listing:


 * 1)  SORCER
 * 2)  is a distributed computing platform implemented in Java. It allows writing network-programs (called "exertions") that operate on wrapped applications (services) spread across the  network.
 * 3)  SORCER is often utilized in similar scenarios to those where grids are used (Grid computing) to run parallel tasks.
 * 4)  SORCER's predecessor was called FIPER, which was software for a GE aircraft-engine-design project
 * 5)  funded from 1999-2003 by NIST's ATP.
 * 6)  SORCER Labs was founded in November 2002 at  TTU;
 * 7)  SORCER core's source code was made public in 2013 under the open source Apache  license.
 * 8)  SORCER (and FIPER) were invented primarily by Professor Mike Sobolewski; his work from 1994-2002 at GE, then at  TTU through 2009, and since then at  AFRL, mirrors SORCER's history.
 * 9)  Other groups which have made use of SORCER include Beijing Jiaotong University in China, Cranfield University in the United Kingdom, and Ulyanovsk State University in Russia.

In order to actually make the edit-request, you should always first de-number, and write it out like this, as a paragraph ready to be pasted by the ERQ person.

Please replace this:

SORCER (Service ORiented Computing EnviRonment), sometimes written as SOCER, is a cloud-based computing platform that integrates applications such as engineering systems in large complex IT environments.

It is a follow up to the FIPER project which was funded by the National Institute of Standards and Technology Advanced Technology Program. The SORCER program was led by Michael Sobolewski at Texas Tech University through 2009. In 2010, the project spun off into an independent organization with a goal of providing an open source platform.

with this:

SORCER is a distributed computing platform implemented in Java. It allows writing network-programs (called "exertions") that operate on wrapped applications (services) spread across the network. SORCER is often utilized in similar scenarios to those where grids are used (Grid computing) to run parallel tasks.

SORCER's predecessor was called FIPER, which was software for a GE aircraft-engine-design project funded from 1999-2003 by NIST's ATP. SORCER Labs was founded in November 2002 at TTU; SORCER core's source code was made public in 2013 under the open source Apache license. SORCER (and FIPER) were invented primarily by Professor Mike Sobolewski; his work from 1994-2002 at GE, then at TTU through 2009, and since then at  AFRL, mirrors SORCER's history. Other groups which have made use of SORCER include Beijing Jiaotong University in China, Cranfield University in the United Kingdom, and Ulyanovsk State University in Russia.

This is good neutral prose, in my book, a big improvement. Specific, sensible, non-controversial. If this looks good to everyone, go ahead and submit the WP:ERQ. Usually I would just push this into mainspace myself, right now, but I'd like to get you used to the procedure. :-)

p.s. On the other paragraphs, I suggest working in parallel. Create a section for each paragraph, and folks can attack them as they are ready. We don't have to go 1,2,3,4..., sequentially. We can be like SORCER, and spread the work out across all our nodes. Good work on paragraph one, we will start seeing faster progress now. I will try to get some time free to come back and hammer through myself, but again, don't let me be the bottleneck. Use those edit-requests, and use WP:TEAHOUSE, when you need help getting something cleaned up. Just try not to terrify them with all the SORCER keywords. :-)   Thanks, and talk to you later; ping my talkpage if you think my elbow needs a little joggle, I won't ever mind.  74.192.84.101 (talk) 21:03, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Looks good to me - its definitely easier to read for a newbie, let's replace the first paragraph on the main page with the proposed version.Prubach (talk) 17:31, 6 February 2014 (UTC)