Talk:SS Choctaw/GA2

GA Review
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Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 07:37, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Okay, this looks to be in pretty good shape, most of this will be prose/layout.


 * On the hatnote, the link to Choctaw (disambiguation) isn't really helpful. Remove that one, but keep the one to USS Choctaw.
 * Combine the lead into two paragraphs.
 * Whaleback is overlinked in the lead
 * "almost 102-years after she sank by a team" - Drop the hyphen, comma after sank.
 * "Her wreck was finally located on May 23, 2017, almost 102-years after she sank by a team from the Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary; her wreck was discovered resting in about 300 feet (91 m) of water, lying on her starboard side, with her bow partially buried in the lake bottom.[2][8]" - This is a very long sentence. Break it into two sentences with the break at the semicolon, and start the second one off with "She ..."
 * NRHP listing should be mention in the body, as well.
 * Per WP:LEADCITE, the inline citations in the lead don't need to be there.
 * The various measurements vary slightly between the infobox and the prose
 * Not seeing where the 1573.61 and 1256.28 tonnage figures in the infobox are coming from.
 * Remove footnote B. Since the link to Andaste is included, we don't need to footnote the ship's whole story.
 * Lead specifies that the design was to step around the patent, include this in the article.
 * Was she launched on May 25 or 15? The prose and the infobox say different things.
 * Link cylinder head
 * "Unfortunately the explosion killed two and injured one of her crew" - Unfortunately is a word to watch. It should probably be removed here.
 * "r L.C. Waldo which tore a 10-foot hole in her starboard side, she sank onto a shoal at the Soo Locks in the collision" - Semicolon, not a comma
 * See WP:PROSELINE. Can we condense some of the super short paragraphs in the service history section, and rephrase some of the sentences to reduce the number of times they start with "On"?
 * "On the day of November 9, Choctaw was in Marquette Harbor during the White Hurricane of 1913 when her Captain, Captain Charles Fox saw the 545-foot (166 m) long steel freighter Henry B. Smith leave the shelter of Marquette Harbor.[22] After about twenty minutes of being battered by waves, Captain James Owen decided to turn Henry B. Smith to port to seek shelter behind the Keweenaw Peninsula. Then all of a sudden Henry B. Smith fell into the trough of a breaking wave and was never seen again; that is until her wreck was located in May 2013 in 535 feet (163 m) of water.[23]" - Everything except for the fact that Choctaw was in Marquette Harbor during the White Hurricane isn't really about Choctaw, and should be removed as off-topic.
 * "Unfortunately this didn't stop the package freighter from slicing into the port side of Choctaw between her 1st and 2nd cargo hatch" - Again, the issue with "unfortunately". Also, spell out contractions.  There are a few other contractions in the article, as well.
 * In the wreck section, combine all of the short sections before the discovery into a single paragraph.
 * "was a very sought after shipwreck" - Hyphenate sought-after
 * Since the Facebook post isn't really supporting anything unique, go ahead and remove it. It's actually not a bad reference, as its the verified reliable source group, but somebody might complain if it gets left in there.
 * Alphabetize the bibliography.
 * I'm not sure if Great Lakes Vessel History quite passes WP:SPS.
 * Need a better source than the YouTube link. YouTube can be an acceptable source, but only if we can confirm who posted it (and that person is a reliable source).  We can't seem to be able to do that here.
 * Atlas Obscura is not a reliable source.
 * We've got some MOS:SANDWICH issues. In my opinion, there are a few too many pictures.  My advice would be to remove the Andaste, Yuma, and Ohio pictures and moved the sonar image from the infobox to where the Ohio picture is now.
 * Registry number doesn't seem to be cited anywhere.

Willing to discuss any of these and help as need be. Hog Farm Bacon 06:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Could we keep the paragraph of the 1913 storm, but remove most of the story of the Henry B. Smith?
 * The patent evasion is only mentioned in the Great Lakes Vessel Histories website. Does that mean I should remove it? GreatLakesShips (talk) 12:34, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I think the Henry B. Smith paragraph is good in its new form. If the patent evasion is only mentioned in the GLVH website, then it could probably be removed.  The article will still be able to meet the GA criteria without that, so it can be removed. Hog Farm Bacon 16:12, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I have completed all the things you said needed doing. I have replaced the patent evasion part with information regarding the ship's construction from a much more reliable source. GreatLakesShips (talk) 16:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll try to take another look at this after work today. It's really close to passing. Hog Farm Bacon 16:28, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for promoting this! I was confused for a moment because I just got a message saying the nomination had failed. GreatLakesShips (talk) 06:18, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the message. What happened is that this article was nominated for GA a few years ago and failed.  The bot that handles GA notices (Legobot) has a known bug where it sends a message that the GA failed if there's a previous GA failure on the talk page, even if it passed the second time around. Hog Farm Bacon 06:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for clearing that up. GreatLakesShips (talk) 11:01, 8 December 2020 (UTC)