Talk:SS Fort Stikine/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Jonas Vinther (talk · contribs) 12:46, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

a. the prose is clear and concise, it respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct
 * Well-written Symbol unsupport vote.svg

b. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation
 * Here is a list of sentence or grammar errors I discovered.
 * 1. "Fort Stikinne had a short career. The ship was destroyed in an explosion at Bombay, India in April 1944" - This sentence should be changed to "Fort Stikinne had a short career; she was destroyed in an explosion at Bombay, India in April 1944" or something similar to that.
 * 2. "which was built by the Dominion Engineering Works, Montreal, Quebec, Canada" - There is no need for the "the" addition in this sentence.
 * 3. "The United Kingdom Official Number 168351 and Code Letters BKLG were allocated" - What this means is not very clear.
 * 4. "Fort Stikine departed from New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada on 7 September 1942 and arrived at Vancouver the next day. She then sailed to Comox, British Columbia, arriving on 10 September. She sailed two days later for Victoria, British Columbia arriving on 13 September. Fort Stikine sailed that day for Los Angeles, California, United States, where she arrived on 23 September. She sailed five days later for Balboa, Panama, arriving on 10 October. After transiting the Panama Canal, Fort Stikine departed from Cristobal, Panama on 17 October with Convoy ZG8. It arrived at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on 21 October" - What is the point in mentioning all these random voyages? It appears to be rather unimportant. Did something related to war happened or something else that is of value to the ships history? If so, that should be mentioned. Otherwise it seems be random and non-significant.
 * 5. "Fort Stikine departed from Guantanamo Bay on 23 October as a member of Convoy GN 14. The unescorted convoy consisted 33 merchant ships; it arrived at New York on 30 October. She departed on 3 November with Convoy HX 214. The convoy arrived at Liverpool, Lancashire, United Kingdom on 14 December. She then sailed to the Clyde, arriving on 16 December" - Like stated above this appears to be somewhat unimportant and random.
 * 6. "The convoy comprised 60 merchant ships escorted by a total of 22 warships over the duration of the convoy. The CAM ship Empire Darwin also provided some protection to the convoy" - Instead of writing "the convoy" three times consider re-writing this sentence because it's not well-written.
 * 7. "Two merchant ships were lost to enemy action and another was damaged. The convoy arrived at Bône, Algeria on 8 January 1943" - In this sentence the article makes a battle reference and then does a u-turn and talks about an arrival at Bône, Algeria? If the Bône arrival was followed by the battle in question consider re-writing this so as to avoid confusion.
 * 8. "It consisted 62 merchant ships, escorted by a total of nineteen warships over the duration of the convoy" - It appears the word "of" is missing in between "consisted" and "62".
 * 9. "The unescorted convoy, comprising nineteen merchant ships" - So far this article has mentioned numbers over ten in numbers so that should be done in this sentence too.
 * 10. "She then joined Convoy EN 246 which sailed the next day and arrived at Loch Ewe on 24 June. Fort Stikine joined Convoy ON 190, which had departed from Liverpool on 24 June" - Like so many other sentences in this article, this is very confusion, poorly reformulated, and comes off as unimportant.
 * 11. The "History" section appears to just mention a bunch of random journeys and voyages that seemingly has no significant meaning to the ships history or World War II. The word "convoy" is mentioned 72 times in the same section! If all these convoy journeys is of significant meaning that should be detailed explained.

a. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline
 * Verifiable with no original research Symbol unsupport vote.svg

b. It provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines c. It contains no original research
 * The bulk of the sources used in this article is online sources which appear to be unreliable, such as Convoyweb.com. The website encourages visitors to share their information on the site which gives the impression that it's more a forum or collection of individual information. Also references like this "THE EXPLOSIONS AT BOMBAY" The Times (London). Tuesday, 12 September 1944. (49556), col E, p. 3." is not acceptable without a template or link as it's hard to follow.

a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic
 * Broad in its coverage Symbol unsupport vote.svg

b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail
 * The article, as repeatedly stated in the "Well-written" section, contains lots of unimportant, misleading, and confusion information, particularly all those convoy references. Also, why is it necessary to have a huge table that explains the destiny of all the other ships that was destroyed at Bombay in 1944?

It represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each
 * Neutral Symbol support vote.svg
 * The article is neutral and does not include personal opinions or statements.

It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute
 * Stable Symbol support vote.svg
 * The article does not change significantly from day to day and is not the subject of ongoing edit wars or content disputes.

a. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content
 * Illustrated Symbol support vote.svg

b. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions
 * The article is nicely illustrated with eleven images all of which is uploaded and from Commons and contains the required copyright/information text.


 * Pass, fail, or hold? Symbol unsupport vote.svg
 * This article still needs additional work. Per my points mentioned in the "Well-written", "Verifiable with no original research" and "Broad in its coverage" sections I'm going to fail it. Jonas Vinther (speak to me!) 14:07, 1 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your review. It would have been nice to have at least had the chance to address or comment on some of the issues raised before the article was failed. I am well able to take on board point raised and respond, as you will see by talk:Hastings Line/GA1. I will be asking for a review, and would point out that Convoyweb is a very reliable site, based on the works of Don Kindell, an acknowledged expert on the convoys on WWII. There is also no requirement to provide a weblink for citations from The Times. It's online, yes, but by subscription only. I access it via Kent County Libraries. If I were to provide a url, it would be several hundred characters long, and only available to the very small number of Wikipedians in Kent (excepting those in Medway) with a library card. Not very useful at all. Those with access to The Times archive can easily verify the information via their method of access. WP:V requires that the information is verifiable. It does not require that you specifically are able to verify the information. Mjroots (talk) 16:50, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Mjroots, my main reason for failing the article was because of the points in the "Well-written" section. I considered putting it on hold, but believed there were too many errors in sentences or sections that made up the bulk of the information. If you feel failing the article was a mistake, feel free to ask for a new or second review. I would also like to participate in that review if that is wished. I'll retract my words about Convoyweb, but still stand by my review result. Jonas Vinther (speak to me!) 17:09, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I know your a new reviewer, so you must understand Wikipedia policies rather than making assumptions. The Times ref is one of the BEST refs possible to include...a newspaper (I consider newspapers to be the best). They do not have to available online...in fact, any kind of ref doesn't need to be online...it just makes verifying the ref easier. If the newspaper is available by subscription only, I would suggest you use the Subscription required template.-- Dom497  ( talk ) 19:07, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
 * - thanks for those comments. AFAIK, logging in to the Times Online website would produce a different url depending on which County Library was used, and also different from logging in directly via The Times own website (which I can't do). For this reason, I don't provide urls for such newspapers. Where a newspaper archive is freely available, the I do provide urls. Mjroots (talk) 19:13, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
 * , I'm aware The Times is an excellent reference to make, but as I earlier today told Mjroots it was not my main reason for failing the article. Jonas Vinther (speak to me!) 19:31, 1 October 2014 (UTC)