Talk:SS Tasman (1921)

SWPA permanent local fleet
Though some sources continue to mention Australian hospital ship and even Australian Navy, the details of the KPM ships becoming the core of the Southwest Pacific Area command's permanent local fleet are detailed with further citations to documents in Archives. The Medical Department: Hospitalization And Evacuation, Zone Of Interior page 410 notes:

"Meanwhile the Southwest Pacific had converted two vessels, the Tasman and Maetsuycker, for intra-theater use. Although controlled by the American Army, these vessels were Dutch hospital ships, sailing under Dutch registry and certified under the Hague Convention by the Netherlands Government.(footnote: For further information on these vessels, see TC: 565.1-DB (Tasman); HD: SWPA 560.2 (Tasman and Maetsuycker); and State Dept: 740.00117 Eur War 1939/1-1648 (Netherlands Hosp Ships). Also see WD Memo W40-21-43, sub: Use of SS Tasman as a Hosp Ship, 20 Oct 43, in AG: 560 (16 Oct 43).)"

Masterson devotes many pages (322-338), also citing original documents, on the very complex negotiations to obtain complete SWPA control through the U.S. Army of the KPM vessels for military operations. Those negotiations, initially in Australia, escalated to high levels in Washington and London involving the Dutch government in exile, the British and United States. The complexity continued as the actual charter agreements led to some dissatisfaction with charter arrangements on the part of the Commanding General, USASOS.

The page should be moved to SS Tasman or some such. Palmeira (talk) 03:36, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Likely not to have been the only steamship to be named Tasman, therefore a move to SS Tasman (1922) SS Tasman (1921) would be better, with SS Tasman being a shipindex page. This will need a friendly admin to delete the existing redirect to enable the move. Mjroots (talk) 10:39, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Not the only steamship of the name? Definitely not as there was certainly an earlier ship of the name, but it could be even more interesting. Some references to the subject ship give a build date of 1922. Masterson gives 1921. Just the usual confusion? Maybe not. This discussion contains a page in Dutch showing "S.S. Tasman Gebouwd [built] in 1921 te Hull (Earle)" with tonnages and dimensions consistent with those given by Masterson. Further, it matches Lloyd's 1945-46 data and build date. But then Plimsol search on Tasman and 1921 ±2 years turns up a 1921 ship and a 1922 ship that turns out to be the year a Tasman that is probably the 1921 ship was fitted with refrigeration in Cork. Based on that, particularly the long and detailed Lloyd's listings, I think I will just move the page to SS Tasman (1921) sometime after making some more corrections. Palmeira (talk) 18:18, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * As I suspected, a quick check via Plimsoll Ship Data reveals that a 1903-built 200 GRT coaster was also named Tasman. Ships are normally disambiguated by year of launch, not the laying of the hull. Mjroots (talk) 19:45, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There were three of the name for KPM according to The ShipList "Koninklijke Paketvaart Maatschappij 1888-1967". Some of the information there, including tonnage for #2, got into the page here. The "1948 transferred to KJCPL" is not likely to be the date the ship reverted to owners (who largely continued operation of the ships while under Army control) after the war, just an ownership transfer. I am sort of interested in the 1922 date. As far as I can tell, and I've not done a real research job on the ship, there was not another large ship of the name built in that immediate time frame. I speculate the date confusion may originate from perhaps a final delivery after fitting of refrigeration in Cork. The confusion over these hospital ship's "nationality" is a bit more understandable as the ship was in and out of Australia all those years with a mix of allied troops, lots of Australians I'd guess, and perhaps Australian medical personnel—though I have indications staff was largely U.S. Army medical. Indications I cannot use as cites now are that the reason the U.S. Army converted these ships, notification February 1943, was that Australian hospital ships already in SWPA could not handle the expected surge of U.S. casualties as U.S. troops were about to became more engaged in offenses planned for later that year. Palmeira (talk) 22:24, 10 July 2013 (UTC)